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PCGS graded a BU coin as proof ?
airpilot
Posts: 4 ✭
Hi all, i have been grading with PCGS for some time and recently i submitted a coin to them in Paris for grading. The coin was a royal mint gold 5 sovereign piece special edition with a Pistrucci engraving. The royal mint sold the coin as a BU coin and it was given a PCGS PR grade, I had entered it as an MS coin on the submission form.
I emailed them in Paris when they still had the coin and asked them about this and they replied "your coin is certainly a proof coin"
The coin does look like a proof, the finish is equal to that on my proof commemorative gold 5 pound coins but was sold and marketed as brilliant uncirculated.
Has anyone come across this before ? what are your views ?
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EIther PCGS is incorrect in their attribution, or the Royal Mint sent you a proof instead of an MS coin.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Do you have the PCGS certificate number?
8 Reales Madness Collection
Yes 81846781.
Sure looks like a proof to me!
Cert verification.
Looks like the Royal Mint made a Royal Mistake and sent you a proof. Do you still have the original packaging that includes the coin certificate?
Ditto.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Yes i still have the original package and c of a which say that is a BU coin. This coin was a limited edition of 500 and has a special feature with the name of Pistrucci engraved just above the 2016 date which can be seen on the coin photo.
I asked the Royal mint about the coin and that i thought it was a proof, they said was that the coin had a very high quality production and finish with remastered historic tools.
I have looked at the coin from the 2016 5 coin sovereign proof set and the obverse has a different portrait of the queen.
The distinction between MS and PR can get pretty academic on coins like this. Strictly speaking it was not made as a proof or made for circulation...
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Interesting question that seems self evident as to the correct answer... Sometimes what we see may not always be what it appears to be. While this looks like a proof, graded like a proof and has created a question here as to whether it is a proof begs the simple question...
Can someone find a slabbed MS example just for comparison purposes and post it here just for fun?
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Looks like a proof to me!
Here's the TrueView image:
PCGS doesn't seem to have any 2016 MS examples certified. In fact, the coin in the OP is the only PR example in the population report.
8 Reales Madness Collection
No picture, but NGC shows a 2011 5 sov as MSDPL, so it seems it has been done--prooflike MS that is. The Royal Mint doesn't have them up anymore--at least at first glance.
edited to add--NGC has 73 proofs slabbed, none as MS (or MSDPL like the 2011).
NGC seem to use this proof like designation quite a lot, not so with PCGS. The only exceptions i have seen myself is with US mint gold high relief coins, for example the 2009 gold double eagle, maybe there are others?
I guess at the end of the day it is not that important as realistic values for this coin as a proof or an MS and fairly similar and if the PCGS graders see the coin as a proof so be it.
If you look at some of the older Royal mint £5 coins, for example the 2002 shield it is very distinctive that an MS is certainly an MS coin which may not be the case with the more recent issues. As i said earlier in the post the quality and finish of this coin is equal to other gold proof £5 RM commemorative coins that i have, so i guess they could have marketed this coin as a proof and not MS ? which is a question that the RM could not answer !
NGC will use PL and DPL terms on coins from many different issues while PCGS has reserved it for Morgan Dollars, SSCA gold foil label gold coins and the modern high relief gold coins.
What I meant was that if in 2011 there was something that looked like a proof finish (enough so NGC called it DPL), perhaps there is one again in 2016. I have no idea as I've never seen a 2011 (or other year) sovereign series mint state coin looking that way.
All speculation of course. I'd love to see a 2016 mint state slab too.
Sure looks like a proof to me.
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First world Mint problems - your dies and planchets are so well made that business strike comes out proof
8 Reales Madness Collection