Hey guys, did I just get shilled on this auction?

Largentcollector

Ugh!! I don't know just seems off to me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-Roger-Maris-ROOKIE-RC-47-PSA-6-EXMT-PWCC-/142262872412?nma=true&si=Rivgrv2QHah9p81wuRJnHINazxY%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

secretstash

I guess you thought it was bump worthy to bid so high in the first place, so others could have as well.

Even if the 2nd under bidder shilled you, you still would have to have outbid the under bidder and that looks legit to me so I don't think it was shilled.

Largentcollector

Wait what, Did I just get shilled or what?

Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder:
e***c( 8 )
Feedback:
100%Positive
Item description:

Item Title:
1958 Topps Roger Maris ROOKIE RC #47 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC)
Bids on this item:
1

30-Day Summary
Total bids:
11
Items bid on:
11
Bid activity (%) with this seller:
36%

Bid retractions:
0
Bid retractions (6 months):
2

30-Day Bid History
Category
No. of Bids
Seller
Last Bid

Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
5d 20h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
9d 23h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 2
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 3
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 3
6d 1h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 3
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 3
6d 5h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 3
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 3
<1h

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Largentcollector

Looks to have shilled other auctions.

Sdub

IMO, no. You have 4 different bidders from $430 to $558. Some strong competition.

Assume you will be shilled in any auction, and place your bid accordingly. So when it does happen, you don't need to complain about it and you don't have to worry about it.

Largentcollector

Wait what?

Bidder Information
Bidder:
a***o( 5 )
Feedback:
100%Positive
Item description:

Item Title:
1958 Topps Roger Maris ROOKIE RC #47 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC)
Bids on this item:
1

30-Day Summary
Total bids:
43
Items bid on:
28
Bid activity (%) with this seller:
27%

Bid retractions:
0
Bid retractions (6 months):
0

30-Day Bid History
Category
No. of Bids
Seller
Last Bid

Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
2
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
3
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 2
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 3
3h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
2
Seller 4
3d 5h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
2
Seller 5
5h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 6
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
3
Seller 3
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 7
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 8
1h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 4
5d 8h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 9
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 9
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
2
Seller 1
5h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 10
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 11
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 12
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 13
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 14
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 14
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 14
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 15
19h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
8
Seller 16
<1h

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Largentcollector

I know feedback looks good but, come on.

Bidder:
k***i( 43)
Feedback:
100%Positive
Item description:

Item Title:
1958 Topps Roger Maris ROOKIE RC #47 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC)
Bids on this item:
3

30-Day Summary
Total bids:
14
Items bid on:
6
Bid activity (%) with this seller:
100%

Bid retractions:
0
Bid retractions (6 months):
0

30-Day Bid History
Category
No. of Bids
Seller
Last Bid

Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
2
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
3
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
5
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards
1
Seller 1
<1h Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards

Largentcollector

@Sdub said:
IMO, no. You have 4 different bidders from $430 to $558. Some strong competition.

Assume you will be shilled in any auction, and place your bid accordingly. So when it does happen, you don't need to complain about it and you don't have to worry about it.

Ok so this is where we are at now, Ohhhh goooood.

dytch2220

One word, gavelsnipe.com.

DocMercy

@Sdub said:
IMO, no. You have 4 different bidders from $430 to $558. Some strong competition.

Assume you will be shilled in any auction, and place your bid accordingly. So when it does happen, you don't need to complain about it and you don't have to worry about it.

This----------^

travis t

OP - If you need to ask.....You're the one who threw down the last snipe. What am I missing here? You shilled yourself. If you didn't want to pay the hammer price, you should have poured yourself a tall drink instead.

Largentcollector

I don't see what your getting at, I bid what I bid because I needed the card for a project I'm working on. I didn't have a problem paying for the card, I just though the bid activity didn't look right. I was only asking members to answer the question was this auction shilled or not.

@travis t said:
OP - If you need to ask.....You're the one who threw down the last snipe. What am I missing here? You shilled yourself. If you didn't want to pay the hammer price, you should have poured yourself a tall drink instead.

travis t

Then I guess the answer is no.

Dpeck100

Final three bids look like snipes to me. It is beyond comical when people think that somehow sniping prevents potential shilling.

It is impossible to tell from what I can see. The under bidder may be a fresh ID and while the percentage looks high it is only on 11 cards. I would be much more concerned if I were you if it was an ID that has bid on like 400 items and a huge percentage are with the same seller. I have seen 500+ items bid on with 80% with the same seller. Big red flag in theory.

The second under bidder has only bid on six items and all are with the same seller. Once again this could easily be someone who saw some fresh items listed and bid on them. Depending on the month you could see my ID have a very high percentage with one seller.

The third under bidder clearly likes baseball cards. Of their 43 bids 27% were with the same seller and that is probably around six actual items. Way too small of a number to get concerned.

My take is you bid on an item offered by PWCC that has great centering and there is not enough evidence to suggest shill bidding.

dytch2220

@Dpeck100 said:
It is beyond comical when people think that somehow sniping prevents potential shilling.

Lol. I think we duked it out over this on another thread quite some time ago. And I still believe it's the best advice, although I must concede that it may not stop the shilling often or at all. My strategy absolutely always ends up in the lowest possible price or a lost auction (price exceeds willingness to pay). In its entirety:

1. Decide how much you're willing to pay for the item, get comfortable with it. This can either be based on previous sales or the value to you - your call.
2. Set a snipe. Who has time to sit around waiting for auctions to end? Not me, got a job. It might not stop shilling but it doesn't matter, because you won't pay more than you were willing (see step 1). It will eliminate you from the bidding war equation. Some people don't like snipes, but hey these are the bidding rules on eBay.
3. Forget about it. Come back 10 minutes after the auction and see what happened, or burn out the refresh button if desired but don't change your max bid.

These are my low-maintenance rules to keep me sane and keep the price the lowest possible for any given scenario. I'd challenge anyone to share a different set of rules that they think would end up with a lower end price. You can only end up with equivalent results, never better. Shilling can't be stopped, so either go BIN or use these rules and be happy when you get an item at savings from time to time.\

-Nate

Dpeck100

Nate my comment just so you know is in general and no direct swipe at you.

A few years back when the debate reached its climax I cited research that proved the timing of the bid had no impact on final price. Many chose to dispute their findings but the one finding no one disputed was the final bids were made by the most serious bidders.

The beauty of the snipe shill bid is you would only target the most serious bidders and could inflict the most damage. You could also simply choose not to pay and hence a free shot at those who wanted the item most.

The nuclear snipe being a single bid is beyond a shadow of a doubt the best shill bid option.

bobmoat

Wow, you cited research?

grote15

Sniping doesn't necessarily protect you from shilling but it will limit your exposure and increase your chance at winning an auction as the person you outbid to win won't have time to react or rebid (of course, it won't help you if there are other, more aggressive snipers involved, or if the older bid was a very aggressive one, too). I don't know how that is even debatable and any study that claims otherwise is either utilizing data from categories different from sportscards and memorabilia or is empirically flawed.

dytch2220

Nate my comment just so you know is in general and no direct swipe at you.

Yeah, we're cool David.

Many chose to dispute their findings but the one finding no one disputed was the final bids were made by the most serious bidders.

This fits in just fine with my theory, I still get it at the same price I was willing to pay or lose the auction. If i'm one of these serious bidders and I don't snipe, this may ballpark me with other potential bidders and cause them to stretch their upper ceiling. Blind snipe against blind snipe removes any of this factor.

The beauty of the snipe shill bid is you would only target the most serious bidders and could inflict the most damage. You could also simply choose not to pay and hence a free shot at those who wanted the item most.

The nuclear snipe being a single bid is beyond a shadow of a doubt the best shill bid option.

Hopefully the nuke snipe doesn't catch on as a tactic. But I still don't overpay with my rules, I either lost or paid it's value and/or what it was worth to me.

Dpeck100

If your ever bidding in an auction and think something is fishy. Just do the $1 triple stack. The greed will get them and they will go for more and you are off the hook and you didn't do a bid retraction. Works like a charm.

steel75

Plus a nicely centered PWCC tends to go at a higher price

HighGradeLegends

@dytch2220 said:

@Dpeck100 said:
It is beyond comical when people think that somehow sniping prevents potential shilling.

Lol. I think we duked it out over this on another thread quite some time ago. And I still believe it's the best advice, although I must concede that it may not stop the shilling often or at all. My strategy absolutely always ends up in the lowest possible price or a lost auction (price exceeds willingness to pay). In its entirety:

1. Decide how much you're willing to pay for the item, get comfortable with it. This can either be based on previous sales or the value to you - your call.
2. Set a snipe. Who has time to sit around waiting for auctions to end? Not me, got a job. It might not stop shilling but it doesn't matter, because you won't pay more than you were willing (see step 1). It will eliminate you from the bidding war equation. Some people don't like snipes, but hey these are the bidding rules on eBay.
3. Forget about it. Come back 10 minutes after the auction and see what happened, or burn out the refresh button if desired but don't change your max bid.

These are my low-maintenance rules to keep me sane and keep the price the lowest possible for any given scenario. I'd challenge anyone to share a different set of rules that they think would end up with a lower end price. You can only end up with equivalent results, never better. Shilling can't be stopped, so either go BIN or use these rules and be happy when you get an item at savings from time to time.\

-Nate

What he said is good advice

bobmoat

The only people who think that are Dr. Peck and trolls

mlbfan2

@dkfastball said:
Sniping doesn't prevent being shilled and it is comical that many people here think it does.

What it does is help to prevent it. In the long run, early bidders will get shilled more than snipers.

bobmoat

FYI, the academic term used as the alternative to sniping is "squatting," which makes Dr. Peck a squatter. You can't make this up.

travis t

Hmmm. This looks like fun. Let's make up some other interesting terminology for eBay bidders:

Retractobot: A persistently annoying individual programmed to deviantly disobey procedural policies

Dpeck100

If only you guys would open your eyes. The guys that consign their cards two primary shill methods are the high opening bid placed shortly after the auction starts and the snipe at the end. It is what it is.

The guys that you see running cards up generally already own copies and just want a high closing price and bow out at the end.

The auctions I pay the most for are when I place a final bid in the closing moments and the reason is all it takes is one or two other serious bidders and you get a strong price. When I place my final bid with plenty of time to go, if I win it, it is usally at a great price for me.

As I have said I have tried every bidding method. The more desiarable or rare the item the more action you get at the end and if you want to win you better hope you put in your best bid.

mlbfan2

@Dpeck100 said:
The auctions I pay the most for are when I place a final bid in the closing moments and the reason is all it takes is one or two other serious bidders and you get a strong price. When I place my final bid with plenty of time to go, if I win it, it is usally at a great price for me.

Fake news.

MULLINS5

Is there a way for gavelsnipe to snipe an item at 10 seconds or less? I don't like that it snipes at 30 seconds.

I regularly do the triple stack that David mentioned. I'll place three to five minimum bids right on top of each other in the last few minutes so that the seller gets greedy and over-shills, or others will say "I'm out" and stop bidding.

To the OP - I don't think you were shilled, but you really never know and many times we just have to trust the process and move on.

travis t

I didn't know that honesty can be abusive. But it is the best policy.

Dpeck100

Years ago a few board members got caught doing a "safety bid". I don't recall who it was and frankly don't care but the method is exactly as I stated. High opening bid early. Let the bidders try and find the max bid and run the item up. The hidden reserve. The part I find so mind boggling about this discussion is since we have gone to a new format one thing is for certain. There are a lot of eyeballs on this forum. The people who for years have said I only snipe. Sniping saves you money. To avoid getting shilled snipe. Sniping is the only way to bid and yada yada yada. They are telling the cheaters exactly how to get them. Over 30% of the bids come in the final minute and that number may be low. Of course they are going to go after those bids. The easiest way to hide their agenda is to snipe. Just blend in with the crowd.

grote15

@MULLINS5 said:
Is there a way for gavelsnipe to snipe an item at 10 seconds or less? I don't like that it snipes at 30 seconds.

I regularly do the triple stack that David mentioned. I'll place three to five minimum bids right on top of each other in the last few minutes so that the seller gets greedy and over-shills, or others will say "I'm out" and stop bidding.

To the OP - I don't think you were shilled, but you really never know and many times we just have to trust the process and move on.

Yes, you can set it to snipe at 5 seconds.

MrHockey

Click "My Account", then "My GavelSnipe Preferences".

I think mine is set at 3 seconds and it has worked great.

Sdub

@dytch2220 said:

@Dpeck100 said:
It is beyond comical when people think that somehow sniping prevents potential shilling.

Lol. I think we duked it out over this on another thread quite some time ago. And I still believe it's the best advice, although I must concede that it may not stop the shilling often or at all. My strategy absolutely always ends up in the lowest possible price or a lost auction (price exceeds willingness to pay). In its entirety:

1. Decide how much you're willing to pay for the item, get comfortable with it. This can either be based on previous sales or the value to you - your call.
2. Set a snipe. Who has time to sit around waiting for auctions to end? Not me, got a job. It might not stop shilling but it doesn't matter, because you won't pay more than you were willing (see step 1). It will eliminate you from the bidding war equation. Some people don't like snipes, but hey these are the bidding rules on eBay.
3. Forget about it. Come back 10 minutes after the auction and see what happened, or burn out the refresh button if desired but don't change your max bid.

These are my low-maintenance rules to keep me sane and keep the price the lowest possible for any given scenario. I'd challenge anyone to share a different set of rules that they think would end up with a lower end price. You can only end up with equivalent results, never better. Shilling can't be stopped, so either go BIN or use these rules and be happy when you get an item at savings from time to time.\

-Nate

Very good advice Nate. Add to that this:

4. ) Learn to appreciate coming in second. Happens to me 8 out of 10 times. No big deal, move on, this is a hobby.

5.) The best way to get back at the shillers; let them win.

6.) When you absolutely "want" a card, or "need" a card, or "have to have it for my registry"; your chances of being shilled just went up 5x. have a wider breadth of collecting interests to find VALUE in cards you like.

7.) If you're not snipping, you just raised the probability of being shilled 3x. Watching the auction, changing your bids, multiple bidding, getting emotionally attached; all signs you will be shilled. Shillers feast at folks that don't snipe. They will bait you into higher bids. Don't take the bait; set a price via snipe program that you feel is reasonable and fair, then walk away.

Largentcollector

That wasn't my intent (apology to Sdub), I guess I was frustrated as buyers we do get screwed over sometimes. I think the last bid was around 450 or so when I placed my final bid (It was my high bid so I had no problem paying). But when you see the under bidder has a feedback of six and bid retractions I felt a little cheated. I just wish they would be able to cancel out bids where bidders have bid retractions that's all (I know that won't happen).
I have been on eBay for a long time and never retracted a bid ever so it seems to me accounts like this are there only to shill. Just speculation on my part though. I don't anything about the process of shilling, I didn't even know about it until I started reading this message board.

@HeritageGuy72 said:

@Largentcollector said:

@Sdub said:
IMO, no. You have 4 different bidders from $430 to $558. Some strong competition.

Assume you will be shilled in any auction, and place your bid accordingly. So when it does happen, you don't need to complain about it and you don't have to worry about it.

Ok so this is where we are at now, Ohhhh goooood.

Not sure what the problem is. You asked a question; you received an answer. You don't like the answer, so you're reply is confrontational.

Sdub

@Largentcollector said:

That wasn't my intent (apology to Sdub), I guess I was frustrated as buyers we do get screwed over sometimes. I think the last bid was around 450 or so when I placed my final bid (It was my high bid so I had no problem paying). But when you see the under bidder has a feedback of six and bid retractions I felt a little cheated. I just wish they would be able to cancel out bids where bidders have bid retractions that's all (I know that won't happen).
I have been on eBay for a long time and never retracted a bid ever so it seems to me accounts like this are there only to shill. Just speculation on my part though. I don't anything about the process of shilling, I didn't even know about it until I started reading this message board.

@HeritageGuy72 said:

@Largentcollector said:

@Sdub said:
IMO, no. You have 4 different bidders from $430 to $558. Some strong competition.

Assume you will be shilled in any auction, and place your bid accordingly. So when it does happen, you don't need to complain about it and you don't have to worry about it.

Ok so this is where we are at now, Ohhhh goooood.

Not sure what the problem is. You asked a question; you received an answer. You don't like the answer, so you're reply is confrontational.

No apology required here my friend. Just a man's opinion.

Largentcollector

Thanks

@Sdub said:

@Largentcollector said:

That wasn't my intent (apology to Sdub), I guess I was frustrated as buyers we do get screwed over sometimes. I think the last bid was around 450 or so when I placed my final bid (It was my high bid so I had no problem paying). But when you see the under bidder has a feedback of six and bid retractions I felt a little cheated. I just wish they would be able to cancel out bids where bidders have bid retractions that's all (I know that won't happen).
I have been on eBay for a long time and never retracted a bid ever so it seems to me accounts like this are there only to shill. Just speculation on my part though. I don't anything about the process of shilling, I didn't even know about it until I started reading this message board.

@HeritageGuy72 said:

@Largentcollector said:

@Sdub said:
IMO, no. You have 4 different bidders from $430 to $558. Some strong competition.

Assume you will be shilled in any auction, and place your bid accordingly. So when it does happen, you don't need to complain about it and you don't have to worry about it.

Ok so this is where we are at now, Ohhhh goooood.

Not sure what the problem is. You asked a question; you received an answer. You don't like the answer, so you're reply is confrontational.

No apology required here my friend. Just a man's opinion.

Dpeck100

@HeritageGuy72 said:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. The test implies that a person can identify an unknown subject by observing that subject's habitual characteristics.

One person in particular knows quite a bit about Ebay cheating.

You seem pretty hungry for my attention. Want some steak?

bobmoat

Why would you be connected to eBay cheating?

Dpeck100

Well Bob no clue. Your boy seems to think so.

I have leftovers if you guys want some steak.

dytch2220

Now I am literally hungry for steak...

Dpeck100

@dytch2220 said:
Now I am literally hungry for steak...

My little Ginger Rogers is losing interest in her food. Publix sells monster cuts and this was a 40 ounce bone in ribeye. I grabbed one today hoping she would be excited to get a few bites. She loved it and we were able to get her stomach pills down. A win.

Dpeck100

@HeritageGuy72 said:

@Dpeck100 said:

@HeritageGuy72 said:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. The test implies that a person can identify an unknown subject by observing that subject's habitual characteristics.

One person in particular knows quite a bit about Ebay cheating.

You seem pretty hungry for my attention. Want some steak?

What the hell does this have to do with me? And why do you keep posting about your dog as an excuse to be an ass to people?

Quack, Quack, Quack

travis t

This thwead has gone daffy.

bobmoat

Confused. Some snowflakes in here getting all ruffled, or whatever it is snowflakes do. Curl?

sushihotwings

@travis t said:
This thwead has gone daffy.

I don't know, but that is a fine looking steak Dpeck and I am going out to get me one tonight.

Dpeck100

@sushihotwings said:

@travis t said:
This thwead has gone daffy.

I don't know, but that is a fine looking steak Dpeck and I am going out to get me one tonight.

Thanks.

It was a beast. I let this one sit out five hours and then cooked it in the oven and then finished it in melted butter in the pan. Rest for five minutes or so on the cutting board and away we go.

My go to is Worcestershire Sauce, seasoned sale, ground peppercorn medley and of course butter.

I made brussel sprouts for the first time and if you like greens they are fantastic baked in olive oil, sea salt and ground pepper.

travis t

Ok, I'm totally down with the Brussels sprouts - consumed many this past weekend - Doc says no red meat or else imminent danger for me. But, dang that looked way too juicy and I wish Dpeck100 a healthy prostate.

Cakes

The shilling used to drive me batty, still does.

If you had to guess what percentage of the major auctions on ebay are shilled, over or under 50%?

LarkinCollector

I'd take the over.

Largentcollector

The card is now in hand, it looks great and is on display in my office now .