MS-70 Grading Criteria

jmski52

Does a slight contact mark across one of the numerals in the date disqualify a coin from MS-70?

Also, does some slight edge roughness disqualify a coin from MS-70?

The contact mark can be seen under 10X but not under 5X, and the edge roughness is observable under 5x.

I've had coins downgraded for much less, so that is why I'm asking.

logger7

Look at the definitions on the grading guides.

http://www.pcgs.com/grades/

BryceM

Some people can see things without magnification that others miss with a 10X loupe, so I don't think the criteria of magnification is uniformly helpful. To me, MS70 should be flawless, as minted, with excellent technical qualities all around.

That aside, it sounds like the coin doesn't meet YOUR MS70 criteria, so you already have the most important answer to your question.

Outhaul

I don't think anyone would tell you that an MS-70 coin is totally flawless. That would be impossible to achieve. In all my years of collecting and looking at MS/PR-70 coins, I have never found a single one that is flawless.

Cheers

Bob

grip

@Outhaul said:
I don't think anyone would tell you that an MS-70 coin is totally flawless. That would be impossible to achieve. In all my years of collecting and looking at MS/PR-70 coins, I have never found a single one that is flawless.

Cheers

Bob

This..

younique

Pics may help.

TopographicOceans

Fully struck, as struck, and flawless under 5x magnification.

steveben

@Outhaul said:
I don't think anyone would tell you that an MS-70 coin is totally flawless. That would be impossible to achieve. In all my years of collecting and looking at MS/PR-70 coins, I have never found a single one that is flawless.

Cheers

Bob

true nothing is absolutely flawless...but in my mind, an ms70 is one that has no obvious flaws visible even under magnification.

the only modern coins i collect are 1/10 pandas. i can tell you that many ms70 do have spots, marks, and other flaws. however, i have seen those that i cannot find any flaws with. these are few and far between.

if you see something you think is a flaw, it's not ms70.

the best advice: never buy a coin in ms70 condition that you have not seen in hand.

roadrunner

You have to meet your own (or Wondercoin's) MS70 definition. It's a useless concept when it comes to pre-modern era coins. Even the pictured (photo-shopped?) MS70 Morgan dollar linked above has an obvious graze across the eagle's chest that would be obvious under 5X....and probably to the unaided eye. Very interesting that between the MS68 to MS70 coins pictured, there is NEGLIGIBLE difference. Far less than I would have expected.

wondercoin

Thanks RR.

There is obviously a range of quality between "high end" and "low end" MS70 coins just as there is a range with every other grade level.

You may recall a thread here last year where a board member (who was mostly a classic coin collector if memory serves me right) proudly posted his virtually "flawless" Gold Mercury Dime (PCGS-SP70FS) he purchased from me. He asked me if I could sell him a near perfect to perfect Gold Mercury PCGS graded coin and I told him that I would be happy to hand pick him such a coin. I knew that these coins can come near perfect to perfect and PCGS did a great job overall grading them. If, hypothetically, the range of MS70 is MS70.00 to MS70.99, I sent that board member an MS70.9++ coin and it was easy for me to select the coin. In fact, it took Justin about 5 minutes to pull me 3 coins that he deemed about flawless (under 12x in this case) and for me to select the most perfect from those three coins for the board member.

There are plenty of MS70 coins in holders with "flaw(s)" that are still OK for the MS70 grade in my opinion. For example, pre-2004 Mint State platinum coins are notorious for having planchet flaws (pre-strike) and where they are minor, I am personally OK with some of these coins as MS70's. And, of course, it is a wonderful thing when you find one of these that is near flawless as well. I can be forgiving on a 1997 $100 PR70DCAM with a planchet flaw - it was the Mint's first try at Proof platinum and many of the planchets they used were flawed (pre-strike). On the other hand, a board member recently consigned to me a near perfect to perfect example that was the 5th coin ever graded PR70DCAM at PCGS for the date (now over 100+ pop) and that coin will be marketed as a premium PR70DCAM example for a little more money.

One day it will matter if your MS70 is an MS70.0 vs. an MS70.99 (especially on key date, rare, modern coins). The first thing that will need to happen is the grading services expanding the + grade to MS69 as it is truly very easy to differentiate an MS69 vs. an MS69+ coin. No doubt, we are probably 10+ years away from MS70.01 vs. MS70.99 making a difference, but there generally isn't a better time to tuck away near flawless to flawless examples of these coins when no one is watching or even believes such a difference even exists (as now).

As always, just my two cents.

Wondercoin

KellenCoin

Theoretically, a MS70 is flawless. However, realistically that could grade that high. The edge wear would not normally affect the grade.