Ok, here it goes. On the chance that I am very wrong, please accept my apology ahead of time as my intention is no other than to say what I sincerely see on the coin. despite it being graded by our host.
Grade IMO AU55, perhaps 58.
Die Crack and large Die chip between the E and I in DEI. this is a known and relatively scarce Variety.
and here comes the issue I have with the coin. As attractive and nice as it is, I have an uneasy feeling about it, as I have seen 1858 forgeries before. The Date IMO, just does not look right, especially the squished 8s.. Also the area around the Nose is different, but perhaps another die.
a coin with the DCR and chip in DEI is listed in Mike Mashalls "Fake Chinese Coins" CD. ( available from Mike directly for $ 40)
Attached is a comparism of 2 very similar coin ( no DC on DEI)
As YQQ stated, there are 1858 counterfeits out there, but based on what I see in the photos, I am pretty sure this coin is genuine. The obverse and reverse die cracks are correct and sharply defined. The 1858 fake I have seen has a similar, but slightly different, die crack in DEI and no die crack just under Victoria's ear.
Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.
Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.
I think Smitty's coin is in the AU range, 50-55 depending upon the day at our host.
Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.
It's definitely legitimate since PCGS would not give it a certification number if it were counterfeit. The image is mighty tough to interpret since the coin is so dark and the image cannot be blown up for evaluation, but I think I see enough wear on the hair in front of the bun, over the forehead and before the ear to say it is no higher than a mid-grade AU. Also, the cheek looks to have the beginning of a plateau on it, which to me would suggest a low-grade AU. Lastly, even though some red remains, the TrueView images are likely overplaying the color so I think it would definitely be a brown coin. Overall, I will go with AU53BN, but would not be shocked with AU50BN and might be mildly surprised with AU55BN.
Am not sure if it actually has been cleaned. Definitely Not cleaned by myself. Perhaps some time ago., unfortunately as it would otherwise be a great example of the rarity.
I think there are not too many " handfuls" around.
Now that I can see the coin better with the larger images, and the grade is also posted, my initial impression is that it was graded on the slightly conservative end of accurate. Is the spot in front of Victoria's ear really visible in-hand? If so, and/or if the myriad marks within the reverse field are obvious in-hand, then the coin might have gotten docked for these.
@YQQ said:
Am very curious now.
how would you guys grade mine?
YQQ, I think yours would have a details grade of AU53, but it has definitely been cleaned beyond the point of certification in a problem-free holder at PCGS, which is a darn shame.
Smitty's coin is catalogued in my book as obverse die OB2 and reverse die RB1, one of the most common 1858 die pairings. However, copies from the late die state displaying the big die chip at the E in DEI are not common at all. An AU example is a very nice coin.
The obverse die OB2 is interesting in that it is one of only a few 1858 obverse dies that has a die crack not starting or ending at the rim. If you look closely at Smitty's coin, you can see this horizontal die crack just below the Queen's ear.
I catalogued the dies that minted YQQ's coin as obverse die OA2 and reverse die RA3. Only three 1858 reverse dies had an intact maple vine and sixteen intact leaf stems, of which RA3 was one. I agree with other posters that YQQ's example is AU harshly cleaned, but still a very collectible coin.
Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.
So, what are the price ranges for these coins? I have an early version of Smitty's coin (XF 40-45 probably) that displays all 5 die cracks, but they are just little baby cracks.
Smittys
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62 or 63 brown
Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
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Collector of:
Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
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AU58 BN
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Ok, here it goes. On the chance that I am very wrong, please accept my apology ahead of time as my intention is no other than to say what I sincerely see on the coin. despite it being graded by our host.
Grade IMO AU55, perhaps 58.
Die Crack and large Die chip between the E and I in DEI. this is a known and relatively scarce Variety.
and here comes the issue I have with the coin. As attractive and nice as it is, I have an uneasy feeling about it, as I have seen 1858 forgeries before. The Date IMO, just does not look right, especially the squished 8s.. Also the area around the Nose is different, but perhaps another die.
a coin with the DCR and chip in DEI is listed in Mike Mashalls "Fake Chinese Coins" CD. ( available from Mike directly for $ 40)
Attached is a comparism of 2 very similar coin ( no DC on DEI)
As YQQ stated, there are 1858 counterfeits out there, but based on what I see in the photos, I am pretty sure this coin is genuine. The obverse and reverse die cracks are correct and sharply defined. The 1858 fake I have seen has a similar, but slightly different, die crack in DEI and no die crack just under Victoria's ear.
http://www.victoriancent.com
LOL if it's no good PCGS owes me ,,,,lol
thanks Rob
did you notice the Vine in my coin? ICCS did not.
I did. OA2/RA3.
http://www.victoriancent.com
I think Smitty's coin is in the AU range, 50-55 depending upon the day at our host.
http://www.victoriancent.com
58
Steve
53 Brown
It's definitely legitimate since PCGS would not give it a certification number if it were counterfeit. The image is mighty tough to interpret since the coin is so dark and the image cannot be blown up for evaluation, but I think I see enough wear on the hair in front of the bun, over the forehead and before the ear to say it is no higher than a mid-grade AU. Also, the cheek looks to have the beginning of a plateau on it, which to me would suggest a low-grade AU. Lastly, even though some red remains, the TrueView images are likely overplaying the color so I think it would definitely be a brown coin. Overall, I will go with AU53BN, but would not be shocked with AU50BN and might be mildly surprised with AU55BN.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
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55 seems reasonable
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Am very curious now.
how would you guys grade mine?
The "full-vine" is about a 50, but luster/surface looks off .... cleaned?
58 BN
Am not sure if it actually has been cleaned. Definitely Not cleaned by myself. Perhaps some time ago., unfortunately as it would otherwise be a great example of the rarity.
I think there are not too many " handfuls" around.
Now that I can see the coin better with the larger images, and the grade is also posted, my initial impression is that it was graded on the slightly conservative end of accurate. Is the spot in front of Victoria's ear really visible in-hand? If so, and/or if the myriad marks within the reverse field are obvious in-hand, then the coin might have gotten docked for these.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
YQQ, I think yours would have a details grade of AU53, but it has definitely been cleaned beyond the point of certification in a problem-free holder at PCGS, which is a darn shame.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
YYQ - AU Details
Smitty's coin is catalogued in my book as obverse die OB2 and reverse die RB1, one of the most common 1858 die pairings. However, copies from the late die state displaying the big die chip at the E in DEI are not common at all. An AU example is a very nice coin.
The obverse die OB2 is interesting in that it is one of only a few 1858 obverse dies that has a die crack not starting or ending at the rim. If you look closely at Smitty's coin, you can see this horizontal die crack just below the Queen's ear.
I catalogued the dies that minted YQQ's coin as obverse die OA2 and reverse die RA3. Only three 1858 reverse dies had an intact maple vine and sixteen intact leaf stems, of which RA3 was one. I agree with other posters that YQQ's example is AU harshly cleaned, but still a very collectible coin.
http://www.victoriancent.com
Nice one!
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So, what are the price ranges for these coins? I have an early version of Smitty's coin (XF 40-45 probably) that displays all 5 die cracks, but they are just little baby cracks.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/collectors-showcase/world-coins/one-coin-per-year-1600-2017/2422
CCN Trends currently at $245CAD
Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
Member of Canadian Association of Token Collectors
Collector of:
Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
My Ebay