Can some money be made buying on ebay?
learningcoins
Posts: 73 ✭✭
As we have discussed, a buyer can really do no wrong in the eyes of ebay, and has the ability to return anything for any reason, so it is not like we have to take a huge risk or chance buying ungraded coins on ebay. If they look good in hand, wonderful, if not, send them back. The rules of the game have already been set, so is anyone playing the game with much success? It would seem to me that the deck is stacked in the buyers favor.
Now keep in mind, the buyer had actually better have a fair idea of what they are looking at when the coin arrives, but assuming they do, how can this be a bad business practice? I am sure ebay is filled with many, many coins that will not holder, but if a seller is wanting to not disclose this and try to slide past the unsuspecting, is making them take a return in any way treating them wrong?
I would assume some good money could be made if you had the patience and skill. I would also guess you could play the same game buying coins already in holders, but the rewards would be much thinner typically.
Comments
Sure money can be made. You can also lose money too by trying to arbitrage a weak or bad coin....or just paying too much for something you think has a lot of potential. Knowledge and a good handle on the probabilities in essential. Also being lucky helps if you're the first one to identify a sleeper/variety coin that the seller is unaware of.
Actually buying coins in holders from dealers and collectors has a higher probability because here you get to see the coin in hand before giving up your $$. But, you also have no return privilege in most cases. It happens frequently enough that your local shops get coins back from the TPG's that have been under-graded their first time through. I would consider myself quite fortunate if some shop or collector gave me first shots on all their freshly graded TPG coins so that I can pick through for anything under-graded.
That was a very popular way to make money in the 1986-2004 period as about 10-20% of every submission had some coin(s) that were brutalized. Some of my own submissions in that era came back 80% under-graded where I had to send everything back a 2nd time to get the correct grades. These days, it's more likely that any submission are just the same coins going back for another look. But if you can run across fresh material, picking through it after being "first graded" is in your favor if you know what you're looking for.
Ebay is a great place to make money on coins.
That said i do not like your approach by buying things with the intention of returning them as if it is a way to game the system.
Why not do the research and be confident in what you are buying in the first place.
I don't have the grading skills necessary nor do I like the "return game" that would be required if I were just cherry picking ungraded material. I have had some success in flipping, though slim margins generally, by purchasing graded coins by the major TPG's. By limiting myself to graded coins I have also been able to avoid returns from my buyers. Every once in awhile I get lucky and discover an unattributed error or Vam that I can parlay into a larger return on my investment. But of course, buying mostly as a flipper, it's always a "buy low, sell high" rule if I'm making any purchases at all. A person like myself who only dabbles in this and doesn't have the money, time, or requisite grading skills to do much else than the occasional Ebay purchase, I limit it to graded material only.
Sure you can..but it's called 'work'.
You can be confident on the "what" you are buying which might be enough if you're buying an unattributed variety or rare VAM, even errors. But, if the quality of the coin is crucial in your buying decision (ie strength of luster, marks, hidden hairlines, toning or spots eating into the metal) these are things you may not be able to fully evaluate from the seller's photos until the coin is in-hand. The coin could go from possible winner as a strong MS65, to a sure loser if the coin turns out to be low end from hidden hairlines. If the seller's were 100% up front in describing the negative and positive features of the coins, then buyer's "should" have no real reason to return anything. But, we know this is almost never the case.
For the 6 years I was on Ebay buying coins I made money on them. In fact out of about 150 purchases I only lost significantly 3 or 4 times. But one of those was a $2K theft and another a $700 scam that came close to wiping out all the combined profits on the other coins.
"I can't make money on it" is not a valid return reason, and will result in you getting blocked by a lot of sellers. It might be OK in the ebay world but it is extremely unethical.
You also have to know how to sell.
RR, the OPs post was on "gaming" the system.
IMO not a good way to build a solid business.
If you have a worthy coin, and know how to grade and generally price it, then the "selling" takes care of itself. The hard part is finding the right coins and being lucky enough to be able to buy them before the next shark shows up.
Anytime I bought the right coins at the right price (and I always knew it when it happened) it was a simple matter to find a dealer who would readily re-purchase them. If you're buying "iffy" or "hopeful" coins then it's a different story.
Personally, I've found eBay to be a lot less effective for selling. The margins charged are substantially greater than earlier. Then, you could make two way markets in certain coins. My interest in selling on eBay is way down and so is my buying there.
I have some very skilled friends right here on this forum that regularly make profits buying, slabbing them, selling them.
I have also had success do the same. What really helps is if you have had time behind the lens of a camera imaging coins. I do believe this gives a guy an edge assessing coin listings. Quite often raw coins are raw for a reason, many are problem coins that have been cleaned or artificial toned. I find the common date coins are subject to the artificial toning while the tougher dates have been cleaned. A lot a things can go wrong buying raw. It's best to read some books and handle as many graded coins as possible in the series your interested in.
ErrorsOncoins has mentioned intentionally returning coins is not a good approach . I gotta say this. If a seller is selling raw and does NOT offer a return policy I move on. Now, if I buy a coin the seller claims to be original and is not, I'll return it in a heartbeat because he's a liar and is knowingly trying to take advantage of folks that don't know any better. What are you supposed to do, inherit a problem coin that you'll never even break even on? It's not a game, in all due respect. This is my opinion.
Crazy points out that great coin photography really helps when selling on ebay.
I completely agree with this. I have bought countless coins on ebay from bad photos, then took a great photo of the same coin and made 100% profit on it.
Yes - do it all the time. Sometimes timing, right retail buyer, or lot I got cheap. Many times defies logic.
One slabbed dime lot of 4 got cheap, first one sold at retail paid for it. 2 others sold at retail since then.
MS 65 Frank bought 35 pct MV - auc giveaway sold at 95 pct MV week later $325. Can go on and on. I just buy low /sell high. Buying right is key. One coin went thru auc 3 times $1 below CDN bid to start no bidders - threw back in store at full retail sold week later. When it's hot it's hot - some u think will turnover quick don't. Also done well on raw G/VG Barber 50c. People buying to fill holes they don't care about registry, sticker, holder game. I sell at retail only for most part.
At shows stay behind my table as much as possible - there to buy and sell w public.
This x100. I have gotten coins for exceptional prices after carefully scrutinizing so-so pictures only to be incredibly surprised when they arrive. I have no doubt the prices on those occasions reflected the poor photography.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
There would be no reason to buy a coin with the intention of returning. It would actually be the exact opposite. I am just saying that a buyer has the ability to return a coin that either a seller has no knowledge of or is selling with the hope or intent to deceive a buyer. Images of coins can be all over the place as well as truthful descriptions. I can make my best coin look bad with the wrong photo, and my worst coin look good. If a seller is pretending to have just purchased a coin fresh out of estate, and it is fresh to the market, is a buyer safe to assume that the coin has not just been returned as cleaned or artificially toned by PCGS? When a seller hides behind lies or deception, I feel very good at catching them at their game and returning the coin. Do I care if they block me as a buyer? I doubt that I would trust them enough to attempt a second buy anyway.
If a seller is an honest business person, there would be no reason for either of us to have issues with one another. I would get what I was sold, and I would be happy.
Perhaps this is what Ebay has become, I don't like playing games.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I also forgot to mention I've seen really crummy pictures only to check the cert to find it has a TruView. I've had that happen a few times.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I probably purchased 1000+ coins on ebay this year. I returned 3.
2 came from the same seller last week. 1 months back and was returned because of a clear mistake
if you pay retail, or anything close to it, you will probably lose money when it comes time to sell. Margins on most collectibles, including coins, seem to be increasing. This is probably due to sellers perceiving that demand is dropping. As a result they want to make more on each sale as sales become less frequent.
I can certainly see this. Sellers can survive on slim margins if the volume is there, but with no volume, the margins have to increase. There will always be sellers needing cash flow that will sell via auction at what the market dictates. These are the sellers I would think worth watching. Sometimes a person may have to live off of their inventory whether making any money or not.
I know some major sellers who have more or less sworn off straight honest ebay auctions, stuff goes too cheap now. I know buyers who have made over 4 fold homeruns buying on ebay. There was a well known HA employee who perfected that buying system and was let go from HA, conflict of interest. You try to be an honest small dealer, interacting with bigger dealers taking a lot of risk, and you end up losing money, it doesn't make any sense in a hobby where many areas are shrinking. Vest pocket dealers and flippers can just as easily be wiped out as make money. The sharp brick and mortar dealers with tough minded buying programs rely on buyers who don't know what the real losers are in numismatics. And they sell on ebay having researched what stuff is really worth hoping for low return rates while holding their cards close to their chest.
It seems that you are not a seller. A sale that ends in return is a waste of time for the seller between packing, accepting the return and relisting. I know an ebay seller (not coins) that if someone is asking too many questions on an item, he blocks them as a buyer because he knows it will likely end in a return...not saying I agree with that but the return policy should only be used if it is truly not as described.
Yes, you can return a coin.
Ebay also has algorithms that monitor the behavior. Return too many, and you lose your return privilege. Nothing like burning up your returns on $20 coins, and then being stuck with a dog of a $4000 coin.
Same goes with "lost" shipments, etc.
I was notified by paypal that my ability to file for a lost shipment was suspended for 6 months, due to 3 lost shipments. The 3 shipments were all from one seller, in one box, no tracking number. Personally, I think it was never shipped, as it was ASE's sold too cheap when silver was skyrocketing.
I have sold on ebay, and yes I know full well that a return is a poor deal, with that said I also know that multiple pictures, an honest description, and good customer service will eliminate 99% of what might be an issue. If you are an honest good person, you will succeed selling on ebay pretty well. It's certainly not like it was in the beginning when you could make money on most anything that you listed, but for those that have taken the time and effort to build a good customer base, I think it may have been worth the effort. I do believe that in many cases, there is stronger money to be had elsewhere, and ebay can be a great buyers market.
I guess my post may have come off wrong, but I was thinking about all of the folks that have asked me over they years "Is it safe to buy on ebay?, and are you not taking a huge risk?" My answer would have to be really "No" The only people taking a huge risk are the sellers. A buyer can do no wrong in the eyes of ebay. I am not a scammer and I have not ever returned a coin purchased there. I am a big boy and can lose money when I make a mistake. I am just pointing out that the way the game is setup, you are really not taking any risk when buying there, while the sellers have themselves a lot potential hazards so avoid, and the deck is stacked against them.
In a perfect world, dealing with honest players, it is a pretty level playing field, however, we do live in a time and world where people have come to realize they can take advantage of others with little or no recourse. It's the same whether you sell on ebay, the BST, at shows, or in your own shop or website. Each venue can have different pitfalls and things to watch out for. Being in business is not as easy as it seems or looks from the outside. Someone mentioned the word "Work" earlier, and I agreee. A friend tells me the best part of being self employed is that he gets to pick which of the 16 hrs he works each day, and which of the seven days. If it is that much work, you better love what you do I guess.
Yes you can as long as you play the game right. Best to find your coins at a BM or at a shows after you get the eye..
Hoard the keys.
Making money on eBay is easy.
Win my 99c auctions for pennies on the dollar and relist them at a fixed price.
People score off me all the time.
I tried flipping coins on eBay. I could not beat the grading fees, shipping costs, eBay fees, and PayPal fees. I had a couple nice scores, but I could make more working a minimum wage job.
It does seem like a lot of work and expenses these days.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Yes it is work, what a horrible concept.
It is a helluva lot more work when you and in quality photography which is VITAL to make this succeed ....
It can be done.
i pay the banker, the post office, eBay execs, PayPal execs and a host of others, with the money I make there.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
ah, but the question was "can some money be made buying on eBay ? "..... Yes, I almost always make money buying coins there. Re-sales are guaranteed income , at the shop. Margins are thin, but they're still margins.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5