Looking for an authenticator or an auction house who will verify a rare Vending Box as unopened

secretstash

Who verifies authenticity of an unopened vending box for or at auction houses?

Steve with BBCE does not verify vending anymore unless from a sealed case and its unlikely that rare vintage vending would be "from a sealed case" at this point, so who offers this service who is respected as much as him?

If the vending is not from a sealed case but is authentic and untouched contents, then do they use forensics or something else to determine legitimacy?

Any help is appreciated. I would like to have a rare vending box verified as factory not for my sake but for sale clarity. I may just call an auction house as well but I wanted to be prepared.

Thanks.

Arsenal83

Care to share the year/sport or maybe some pictures?

grote15

Steve does verify loose vending boxes but only when they come from Fritsch.

There are hallmarks to look for when evaluating a vending box, most importantly the striping of the cards within and how tightly they are packed but it is difficult to be absolutely certain without sorting through the boxes.

secretstash

@grote15 said:
Steve does verify loose vending boxes but only when they come from Fritsch.

There are hallmarks to look for when evaluating a vending box, most importantly the striping of the cards within and how tightly they are packed but it is difficult to be absolutely certain without sorting through the boxes.

So if non-Fritsch, does an auction house hire someone to verify that the hallmarks match? Otherwise how do they convince their bidders that it is good to go to the moon on? Since Steve cannot do it I assume there is another goto person in the hobby that everyone would trust? There has to be a reason Steve won't verify them so there is some replication of vending box striping being done somewhere or something arguably close.

@Arsenal83 said:
Care to share the year/sport or maybe some pictures?

1980-81 Topps Basketball 500ct Vending (Bird/Magic rc) - Pretty sure there is an "expected" 3 per box mathematics wise so the value could be substantial.

grote15

Auction houses do list product that is not authenticated by BBCE, including vending boxes. Each AH has its own process of determining if an item is authentic or not so if you are bidding on that item you are trusting the word of the auction house.

Because vending boxes are not factory sealed, there is a risk factor involved. The provenance of the item as well as the hallmarks contribute to one's determination of whether the box is good or not. The reason Steve doesn't wrap loose vending boxes is because there is no way to be absolutely certain a box hasn't been searched, though again, there are things to look for to better determine whether a box is authentic or not.

LuvOldPacks

Very good question! Sadly, vending boxes can be searched without detection. If the cards are pulled and kept in the same order as they are packed in the box, then when returned to the box after just a few key cards have been pulled, the hallmark striping will not be compromised enough for even an expert to detect. I'm not a huge fan of the premium paid for a FASC designee on wax and cello boxes, but when it comes to vending boxes, that's a HUGE PLUS and the ONLY way to know you're getting an unsearched collectible.

LOTSOS

Not to hijack your thread but if someone could please explain what exactly a vending box is this newb would appreciate it. I've seen pictures so I get there is a physical diffrence in the appearance but what about the cards contained within? Random, sets, what is the make up?

coinspacks

vending boxes were made by topps as a cheaper way for dealers to put together sets or open to sell singles. they are just a lump of 500 random cards in a box. the boxes were usually all the same outer box and the cards were stacked inside so there is a zebra stripe pattern to the cards. the oldest vending box i have seen is 1960 topps baseball which just sold on auction for $18K. topps made them for the 4 sports and the actual boxes were never sealed with tape or shrink wrapping from the factory. gai and bbce are the only two companies that authenticated vending boxes so far

LOTSOS

Thank you for the quick and thorough reply. Very much appreciated!

grote15

Provenance is also key. That is why Steve will wrap a box from Fritsch even though it is not from a case~he trusts Fritsch enough to do so. There was a guy who was selling 78 vending boxes a couple years ago on ebay. Of course, I was skeptical at first, but after buying a box and pulling two Murray RCs as well as a bunch of other stars, I knew the box was legit so I purchased others that he was selling from that same case. I opened a second box with the same results and kept the other 3-4 in my closet to crack open some day when the mood strikes. I got those boxes at well below market value, and while there was certainly a degree of risk involved, at least initially, it also illustrates that there are legit sources out there, as well, even for vending boxes.

baz518

I believe vending boxes got their name from and were originally sold to fill vending machines that had cards in them. You'd put your nickel in, turn the dial and it would "push" out a few cards. The cards were just stacked in these machines, so vending boxes were created to easily fill them.

Tim, I think I may have bought a few of those same 78 vending boxes you mentioned. There was a former card shop owner (in Washington I think, maybe Oregon) who busted a case of those and a case of 82 Topps wax and was auctioning the boxes off at the same time. I believe I ended up with 3 of each.

grote15

Brad, I recall the 82 wax boxes, also. Yes, same seller. His boxes weren't wrapped or anything but they were as good as gold.

Cakes

baz and grote, not to derail but what type of success have you two had with unopened purchases not verified?

baz518

While most of my purchases are with BBCE and fellow board members, I do try to find hidden gems out there. I've established several relationships with eBay sellers that I buy from fairly regularly... I think the key is talking with the seller, asking questions and trying to determine the provenance of the items. I usually try to avoid raw wax, especially if only a pack or two (instead of a whole box), unless I've established trust with the seller already. Although pulling the Bird/Magic rookie from a lot of packs a few months ago was by far my biggest success story.

grote15

Agree with Brad in sampling product before going all in on a major purchase unless provenance is solid.

Believe it or not, there are many collectors out there who have never heard of BBCE, FASC or even these forums. I would say that in general buying unopened on ebay is equivalent to navigating a minefield, but in my 20+ years of avidly collecting unopened, I have been fortunate enough to have established some very solid sources. You never know where great product is going to come from~I purchased a couple items recently, a 74 baseball wax tray and a 74 baseball rack with Hank Aaron on back from a woman who owns a quilting business. Her husband had bought these packs years ago and stored them in the attic. One of the 75 racks even had the original store receipt attached to it, 49c plus tax, dated September of 1975. The finds are out there, if you keep searching.

Cakes

baz and grote, Thank you for the information. I love the quilting woman story.

I figured it took a lot of due diligence on your end prior to any purchases.