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It's that time of year: 2017 BB HOF inductees

Who makes it this year? I really hope Raines gets in this year and Jeff Kent receives some respect for being one of the greatest offensive 2nd basemen ever (only 16.6% last year)
baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2017.shtml

Comments

  • VitoCo1972VitoCo1972 Posts: 6,127 ✭✭✭

    I think it's finally Raines year. So much so that I bought a nice rookie to be ready for my HOF Inscription. Bagwell still waits and Hoffman is 50/50 for this year. All three MIGHT get in because of some slate-cleaning but if my money was on it, I think it's Raines alone.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Raines should already be in and is the only player I'd vote wholeheartedly for.



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  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭

    Billy Wagner! :p

  • orioles93orioles93 Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bagwell
    Raines
    Hoffman
    Schilling
    Mussina
    Kent
    Pudge
    Guerrero

    They would all get my vote. I agree with the above post that Kent deserves more respect. One of the best 2nd baseman of all time.

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  • CdnOsfanCdnOsfan Posts: 279 ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2016 1:27AM

    @orioles93 said:
    Bagwell
    Raines
    Hoffman
    Schilling
    Mussina
    Kent
    Pudge
    Guerrero

    They would all get my vote. I agree with the above post that Kent deserves more respect. One of the best 2nd baseman of all time.

    I agree with these, its time for Mussina to get in, there has not been an Oriole since Cal and no more on the horizon (hopefully he goes in as an O). I am afraid our next HOFer, Manny Machado, may also go in as a Yankee....All these guys have the numbers....Mussina maybe should have stuck around, 20-9 3.38 ERA his last season. He only had 270 wins but one of the highest all-time winning percentages. He was 40 when he retired and may have had a hard time getting to 300 wins but could have got a bit closer. He did however say before that season that would be it and he stuck to it like Big Papi who also had a monster final year.

    No chance they all make it this year though....Wonder if it is true that Trump will give Pete Rose a Presidential Pardon and maybe put him in himself?

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bags was so close last year and will make it this year along with Raines I believe. Regardless I will be there for the inductions. Kind of a yearly ritual for me.

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  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭

    I predict both Clemens and Bonds pick up 10% this yr and make it in 2018.

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  • cecropiamothcecropiamoth Posts: 959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pudge Rodriguez would definitely get my vote. I count 13 Gold Gloves, he absolutely shut the running game down for a decade or more. CS % is insane. An AL MVP in '99. 2,844 hits and 311 HR almost exclusively as a catcher. I am not sure if he is a PED guy, but he wasn't in the Michell Report.

    Jeff

  • RookieWaxRookieWax Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭

    @cecropiamoth said:
    Pudge Rodriguez would definitely get my vote. I count 13 Gold Gloves, he absolutely shut the running game down for a decade or more. CS % is insane. An AL MVP in '99. 2,844 hits and 311 HR almost exclusively as a catcher. I am not sure if he is a PED guy, but he wasn't in the Michell Report.

    Jeff

    Don't know if the writers outside of Detroit will remember this, but after MLB and the players union agreed on stricter PED testing/penalties in December of 2004 , Pudge arrived to spring training in 2005 looking like a toothpick. He said it was a result of "eating better". His OBP dropped from .383 in 2004 to .290 in 2005 and he was never the same offensive player again.

  • coinspackscoinspacks Posts: 952 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2016 8:59AM

    jeff kent had nice numbers but if you check the prices for his 1992 leaf rookie card....doesnt sell for much.
    even the boxes themselves are under ten bucks each. that means either supply is too high or demand is too low or both....either way i think raines is a better bet.

    has there ever been a year where nobody was inducted?

  • HighGradeLegendsHighGradeLegends Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭✭

    For me, i view ken Griffey jr as the top "modern era" player. Then there is everyone else. None of the names offered really excite me like Griffey. They all seem a bit flat.

  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2016 9:39AM

    @coinspacks said:
    jeff kent had nice numbers but if you check the prices for his 1992 leaf rookie card....doesnt sell for much.
    even the boxes themselves are under ten bucks each. that means either supply is too high or demand is too low or both....either way i think raines is a better bet.

    has there ever been a year where nobody was inducted?

    Yes as recently as 2013 there were no regular player inductions and 2006 was very close with Bruce Sutter just barely sneaking across the line. And of course with the new 10 year ballot Sutter wouldn't have made it with 2006 being his 13th yr I believe. But he will always still be a Hall of Famer now so luckily I found one of these Steve was nice enough to protect for me:

    photo 473febae48ef690adeb4adcf5fddf1a0_zpsecb2ic5t.jpg

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  • rtimmerrtimmer Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭

    Also hope Tim gets in w the last shot

    photo IMG_0285_zps6771971e.jpg

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  • bouncebounce Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭

    bagwell - pretty sure no one ever got 70%+ and didn't make it the following year? feel free to prove me wrong
    raines - so close, i think he'll get the final push this year
    hoffman - also close last year, this one is inevitable so let's get it done with

    that's it for me. i think all these guys go UP in ballots, if you voted for them last year you'd vote them this year and none of the new guys are first ballot material considering the PED issue

    on the new guys, i think these folks will get enough to move forward to another vote:
    pudge
    manny
    vlad
    posada

  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭

    The cloud of suspicion gets a bit larger when you consider he had been teammates with Canseco, Palmiero, Gonzalez, and A-Rod at various points in his career, but it's pure speculation since there's no direct evidence of PED use.

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2016 4:41PM

    According to Jayson Stark on ESPN.com, John Schuerholz and Bud Selig were just selected by the newly revamped Veterans Committee for enshrinement.

    Schuerholz was unanimous, and Selig got 15 votes (out of 16). Lou Piniella was next with 7 votes.

    Steve

  • TomiTomi Posts: 643 ✭✭✭

    @lahmejoon said:

    The cloud of suspicion gets a bit larger when you consider he had been teammates with Canseco, Palmiero, Gonzalez, and A-Rod at various points in his career, but it's pure speculation since there's no direct evidence of PED use.

    Canseco wrote in his book that he supplied Pudge. Probably the most credible guy out there since there hasn't been a single lawsuit against him about his book.

  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Early ballot totals look good for Bagwell, Raines and Ivan Rodriguez. Anybody dumb enough to put Selig in the Hall shouldn't b-tch, moan and complain about Clemens, Bonds etc, who will eventually get in. I feel stronger about that now than ever.

  • baz518baz518 Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭

    I see Raines getting in and that's it.

  • I'm new to the boards, and perhaps a bit biased as you can tell from my username, but I think Edgar Martinez should be in. Last year's increase was encouraging, but I don't think he'll get in on BWAA votes. Tim Raines, Vlad, & Curt Schilling all get my vote as well. Bagwell and Ivan Rodriguez don't get my vote, as I suspect PEDs, but I just don't think we have enough evidence to keep them out, so they'll likely get in. Rodriguez turned up in Canseco's book, as far as I recall that was the only knock on him. I could be wrong there though.

  • jmmiller777jmmiller777 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭

    The Hall of Fame is the best of the best, not merely the good. I think there are too many names being thrown around. So a couple of questions: are there marks that should be set for performances? Minimum HR marks, minimum wins, batting averages and slugging percentages. Should we use the WAR as a guide or should it be used to justify an otherwise mediocre player? What part does it play. Every year we discuss this and I think each year our answers differ. What does everyone think?

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  • vols1vols1 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭

    I'd maybe vote Vladimir Guerrero, but that's it.

  • Raines and Bagwell for sure . Possibly Vlad Guerrero and Trevor Hoffman . Curt Schilling and Pudge Rodriguez come close . Mike Mussina surges

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just don't see the case for Raines. Sure he was a pretty good hitter but not great. Terrible defensively. No power while playing a power position (LF). Yep, he stole a lot of bases. But what else?

  • baz518baz518 Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    I just don't see the case for Raines. Sure he was a pretty good hitter but not great. Terrible defensively. No power while playing a power position (LF). Yep, he stole a lot of bases. But what else?

    Definitely one of the top 5 leadoff hitters of all time. Numbers very similar to Lou Brock, minus getting to 3k hits.

  • garnettstylegarnettstyle Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭✭

    Raines, Schilling

    IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I had a vote, I would vote for these ten players:

    Jeff Bagwell
    Barry Bonds
    Roger Clemens
    Trevor Hoffman
    Edgar Martinez
    Fred McGriff
    Mike Mussina
    Tim Raines
    Curt Schilling
    Lee Smith

    Steve

  • steel75steel75 Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭

    Not exactly exciting this year

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  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Clemens is a top tier HOFer. Or he will be once he gets in.

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  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like Raines and Bagwell are the frontrunners thus far, with Pudge getting strong support in his first year of eligibility, too.

    Noteworthy to mention that both Bonds & Clemens are both at 69%. As I recall, the percentages typically decline by the end of the voting process, but that is fairly significant, in any case.



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  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just my personal opinion. I really think that a 5 year window of actual time is enough time to determine HOF induction. You have the 5 year window after retirement to consider the qualifications as well. So for a total of 10 years. This, for a no doubt HOF'er. It seems after 5 years of time you start to get in the doubtful/not sure realm and number juggling to justify a borderline candidate. I've read that if you have to think too hard on a HOF candidate they probably are not one. I realize the realty, it's not that B/W or ever will be. But it might prevent further the watering down of the HOF. The watering down comments of the HOF have been bandied about for years.With this in mind I vote for Pudge.

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  • TomiTomi Posts: 643 ✭✭✭

    Blown away that Jeff Kent is only at 15% and Fred McGriff at 14%. Just doesn't make sense. Wonder if McGriff hitting 7 more homers to get 500 would make a difference.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tomi said:
    Blown away that Jeff Kent is only at 15% and Fred McGriff at 14%. Just doesn't make sense. Wonder if McGriff hitting 7 more homers to get 500 would make a difference.

    McGriff is seen as a compiler. The perception is that he was good, sometimes very good, for a long time but not really ever great. And was seen as hanging around to try and get to 500 homers, which damaged his image a bit. I think that judgment of him might be a little unkind but I can say I never thought of Fred as a HOFer when he was playing.

  • bouncebounce Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭

    @jmmiller777 said:
    The Hall of Fame is the best of the best, not merely the good. I think there are too many names being thrown around. So a couple of questions: are there marks that should be set for performances? Minimum HR marks, minimum wins, batting averages and slugging percentages. Should we use the WAR as a guide or should it be used to justify an otherwise mediocre player? What part does it play. Every year we discuss this and I think each year our answers differ. What does everyone think?

    there are few "stats" that i think should result in automatic induction.

    1. 3000 hits - regardless of your opinion on performance enhancers you still gotta hit it where they ain't; and i don't care how long you play, that's still a ton of hits
    2. 300 wins - i'll honestly be surprised if we see more than maybe 3-4 guys get there in the next 20 years? kershaw and madbum are maybe the only guys under 30 years old that you could argue have a decent shot, everyone else is over 30 and 10+ years into a career already so the other half of my 4 prediction we don't even know their names yet
    3. 3000 Ks - CC sabathia is the only guy right now who's very close and he still needs a pair of 150 K years to get there
    4. career .300 average with minimum 2000 games played - think Alomar, and it's basically the Jim Rice argument
    5. 3 league MVPs - 2 isn't a given (Dale Murphy, Juan Gonzalez), 3 should be - and near-wins don't count

    HR kind of became irrelevant for awhile but they're kind of down so maybe that stat becomes relevant again in the future, wins is on my list already (and it's 300, not 250), slugging is an overrated stat. not sure how i feel about OPS and WAR.

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭✭

    @Tomi said:
    Blown away that Jeff Kent is only at 15% and Fred McGriff at 14%. Just doesn't make sense. Wonder if McGriff hitting 7 more homers to get 500 would make a difference.

    I'm with ya. I think they're both HOF material, and yes, as silly as it sounds, 7 more HR would have made a world of difference for the Crime Dog. Kent is getting so little love, I assume, because of PED suspicion and his God awful attitude. But you can't deny that the numbers are absolutely Hall-worthy for a 2B.

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  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭

    I am not in favor of "automatic" inductions based on some measure of stats. There are a few numbers accumulators in now. McGriff was great but not HOF great. Would 7 more HR's help his resume....probably.
    There also needs to be some individual form of dominance such as MVP's, CY or in the top 5 of their position over a long time. IMO Kent is HOF worthy. He is one of he best ever at 2B.

    My Fav player after Nolan Ryan was Edgar. To me his HOF resume is beyond question. He was DH for only 1/2 his career. He was one of the very best hitters his entire playing time. He has a ton of extra base hits to go with that high average (batting titles also). Sorry Ichiro but Edgar didn't slap hit the ball. He crushed it !!!!! He was no speedy Gonzalez so his hits were all bonfire hits. ....not infield dribblers.

    I definitely vote also for Bags, Vlad and Pudge.

    The other guys under stronger PED suspicion well..........One way or another the BBWA is gonna have to figure that one out At this point how do you prove/disprove they actually took PEDs? We probably can all agree both Bonds and Clemens didn't need them to be HOFers.

    I do agree with the 300 wins statement. With the 5 man rotation (and quicker started pulls) that mark will be hard to hit.

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  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Edgar played almost 1500 games at DH, nearly 3/4 of the games he played.

    The knocks on Martinez are easy: terrible defense, hence the move to DH; not a ton of power (just 309 homers despite playing in the Kingdome), always hurt/not a ton of games (just 2055 in 18 seasons - an average of 114 a season).

    That said, I think he belongs. Career OPS+ of 147. 1995-2001 OPS+: 185 (led majors), 167, 165, 158, 152, 158, 160. That's elite-level production for 7 straight years.

    Put another way: he was a heckuva lot better than Tim Raines and Raines is getting a LOT of support.

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