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Are there any contemporary counterfeit Trade Dollars?

MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭✭

Obviously, we've all seen tons of the modern fakes. But were any made (in the US or elsewhere) in the 19th Century to pass as money?

Andy Lustig

Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,286 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a good question.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would seem so, why else chopmark them?

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't see why not. All other big coins around the world were counterfeited.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2016 12:50AM

    @SoCalBigMark said:
    It would seem so, why else chopmark them?

    Chopmarks were used for silver coins from all countries. The question would be was it worthwhile to do for US Trade Dollars specifically.

    My guess is that domestic contemporary counterfeiters would have been discouraged in the US because (a) trade dollars were not used in the US, (b) there would be easier coins to counterfeit in the US and (c) chopmarks in Asia would have reduced the ROI on counterfeiting.

    As for, contemporary counterfeits in Asia, I'm not sure. It would depend on how attractive it would be to counterfeit US coins vs. coins from other countries.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Trade dollars, US, British, Japanese, etc., were not really money in China or SE Asian markets. They were units of silver and thus carefully examined by private banks and merchants before acceptance.

    Contemporary counterfeiting certainly occurred, but likely was focused on silver taels.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,286 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FWIW, I would want to see some contemporary counterfeits before believing that they were produced.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd think there was more money to be made ....honestly.... (?) by swapping Morgans for Trades and melting for bullion, having it coined, then doing it over and over again.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Originally, purchasers of Trade dollars were required to certify that the coin were for export only. Eventually, the Mint discovered that some purchasers were circulating excess coins domestically, or simply lying on the certificates. The Mints were also selective about buying silver both for price and source.

  • YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dave Wnuck knows a great deal about contemporary counterfeits. Contact him.

    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    Originally, purchasers of Trade dollars were required to certify that the coin were for export only. Eventually, the Mint discovered that some purchasers were circulating excess coins domestically, or simply lying on the certificates. The Mints were also selective about buying silver both for price and source.

    Hi. I'm a Nevada silver miner and ...darnedest thing.... all the silver in the mine is shredded metal.
    darn it all anyway.

    so I'd like some more....I mean SOME....trade dollars please.

  • AmazonXAmazonX Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2016 10:59AM

    I have two examples in my collection. Excuse the shitty cell photos I just took.

    1877-S lead with silver gilt

    1876-S Not entirely sold that this is a contemporary counterfeit.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a counterfeit that looks XF range but also rings like struck silver - how can you tell when it was made or what exactly is the definition of 'contemporary'?

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMO, anything made of lead MAY have been around near the turn of the century (contemporary) but they would not pass detection so these don't qualify. While Mexican Cap & Rays, Portrait, Pillar 8 Rls, and British Trade dollars exist as contemporary counterfeits, I should think (in my limited experience) Trade $ fakes made in that period are rare or unknown. There is also written evidence from turn of the century newspapers that fake Micro-O Morgan's were in circulation near the turn of the century and are thus contemporary!

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