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How accurate is the weight on Japan Meiji yen and trade yen (dollar)

jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 25, 2016 10:06PM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

How accurate is the weight on Japan Meiji yen and trade yen (dollar)? It seems to me that weight on Japan Meiji yen is pretty accurate 26.95G on lots of coins but sometime I got some is off 0.2 to .3G, is those are fake? I have a trade yen is 27.05G which is 0.17G off, is this fake?

Comments

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2016 10:34AM

    I've got a few raw ones at home and I'll double check once I get back from work this weekend.

    My one very well done fake was off by a gram or two, not tenths of a gram. I would expect them to be as close in spec as a reasonably contemporary crown coin as the coins were being made on Western equipment purchased and the Mint Director was an expert brought in. Also, if the coin is circulated then tenths of grams of weight could be gone.

    Do you have the diameter? Those are VERY precise, and there are three different diameters that were used (same weight and silver content, but different diameters).


    edited to add: if you have it in hand one quickie test is with a magnetic. Silver won't stick. Some fakes have features of a cast copy, but that's not necessarily evident. My one fake had the perfect look but it was the diameter when trying to fit it into a coin album slot that got me checking the weight etc.

    Also, a quickie google search seemed to imply the relatively contemporary crown/dollar coins might be off by .1 to almost .2 of a gram. Someone else might want to opine about that one more too.


  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is very hard to get the accurate reading on the diameters. It is larger than the Meiji Yen. It is not stick to the magnetic.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the coin.

    T-6.JPG 149.3K
    T-7.JPG 380.8K
    T-8.JPG 421.8K
  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Okay, I'll look at mine closer when I get home. Or, hopefully someone else can answer in the meantime. I won't be home and able to check until Monday.

    The diameter you are using to compare would depend on the year of the yen coin. The largest of the three yen diameters was 38.6 and the Trade Dollar was 38.58.

    Checking my JNDA (why on earth this came to work with me I have no idea...) and there are FOUR diameters for the yen coins: 38.58 for the 1870/M3 issue, 38.6 mm for the 'large diameter' 1874-1887 (M7-20) with one experimental 38.3 mm for some of 1886 (M19). 38.1 mm for the 'small diameter' from 1887 on. High quality calipers would help :smile:.


  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    According to jnda Meiji yen and trade yen should be the same in diameter 38.58. There are some years are 38.6 but trade yen should not be larger than Meiji yen in diameter. So I believe this trade dollar is fake.

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Only the first year (1870/M3) yen was 38.58. This is JNDA 01-9.
    JNDA 01-10 are 38.6 mm (except some dated M19/1886 are 38.3 mm). 1874-1887/M7-M20
    JNDA 01-10A are 38.1 mm which cover the remaining ones through 1914/T3.


  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, I don't think so. Most Meiji yen and trade dollar are 38.58 I believe

  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This might help:

    I didn't bother with the part regarding the unique 38.3 mm as I don't have the translation handy.


  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like Japanese fake is harder to tell than Chinese fake.

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2016 1:02AM

    It is a fake. Does not look wright.

    Here is one of mine.
    photo CoolJapanesecoins027.jpg
    photo CoolJapanesecoins029.jpg



    Hoard the keys.
  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is an AU (cleaned) photo via page link as I'm still waking up--at some point I'll dig out my trade dollar and confirm weight. Plus I'll try and get an edge shot too. Eventually.

    starcityhomer.com/trade-dollar.html


  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, it is fake when two things are not right; weight and diameter, I know it is fake already. Your coin looks good. What is the market price for that coin right now? I bought one for $90, not as good as yours. I think it is MS60, MS61.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Look at HA history, lots of Japan Meiji yen or trade dollar sold for less in the past two years than few years back. Looks like no one is in the market for Japanese coins. I noticed that couple years ago for Japanese gold coin. Lots of Japanese gold coin sold for pretty low compare with other country's gold coin.

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes now is the time to get what you want prices are low as of now. I bought this one for $30 some time ago. But even in MS64 you can get them for around $200 to $300 but the 65 look like MS67 to me I would buy and hold.



    Hoard the keys.
  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Type2 said:
    Yes now is the time to get what you want prices are low as of now. I bought this one for $30 some time ago. But even in MS64 you can get them for around $200 to $300 but the 65 look like MS67 to me I would buy and hold.

    WOW, $30 that was a great buy. I will buy them as many as I can buy for 30. I think the market for Japan Yen is very thin, you can tell from HA price. Some auction price was high and some auction price was low but the trend is down.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Recently I bought a 1896 MS64 for 600. I know I was over pay for that coin but I like it so I bought it.

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