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Does PSA ever update their Price Guide?

I understand prices on low pop commons are hard to gauge the market on but for 1975 Topps for example they show a common PSA 10 as being worth $70. Looking at recent eBay completed auctions the cheapest completed auctions start at $87 and quickly goes up from there. Looking at current listings it is also apparent that there are no $70 commons to be had nor have their been for anytime in the near past yet the guide shows $70. How often, if ever, do they visit the values or is this sort of like Beckett values where you simply have to laugh and then go to completed auctions to figure out what something is really worth?

Comments

  • lawyer05lawyer05 Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭
    price is controled by market and that changes every day
  • Originally posted by: lawyer05

    price is controled by market and that changes every day




    I get that, but I'm saying 3 months worth of eBay data shows that not a single card has sold for less than $87 which shows their out of date/touch with reality when they try to claim the market rate is $70.
  • Originally posted by: lawyer05

    price is controled by market and that changes every day




    He knows that. Thanks again, professor.
  • kwtozkwtoz Posts: 352 ✭✭
    It's quite obvious that not everything is properly updated. Check out the 1940 Gum Superman.



    Based on years of sales on ebay, sale prices are 2x to 3x the listed values and have been for a *long* time.



    High number PSA 4s are listed as $40. You can't buy a high number PSA 1 for that price.
    Kevin Thomas
  • KK Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭
    I can't confirm it, but I've always speculated that a lot of their market data is collected from what people are entering into the "My Cost" heading in their inventory on the PSA website.
    Looking for:
    1972 Topps #88 AL RBI Leaders in PSA 9
    1973 Topps #614 Rookie Outfielders (Dwight Evans RC) in PSA 9
    1979 Topps #680 Carlton Fisk in PSA 10




    My Sets
  • Originally posted by: K

    I can't confirm it, but I've always speculated that a lot of their market data is collected from what people are entering into the "My Cost" heading in their inventory on the PSA website.




    But that wouldn't be accurate either if the owner submitted the card themselves. You cant go by a $5 value when the card would sell for $100 if put on eBay.
  • Originally posted by: dcaudle86

    Originally posted by: K

    I can't confirm it, but I've always speculated that a lot of their market data is collected from what people are entering into the "My Cost" heading in their inventory on the PSA website.




    But that wouldn't be accurate either if the owner submitted the card themselves. You cant go by a $5 value when the card would sell for $100 if put on eBay.




    He's not saying it's accurate. He's offering a theory why it's so inaccurate.
  • KK Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭
    At the end of the day, if you're using an SMR to determine value you're going to get burned.

    Here's a helpful tip...

    Go to this website: vintagecardprices.com

    Make an account

    Get educated

    Now you know; and knowing is half the battle!
    Looking for:
    1972 Topps #88 AL RBI Leaders in PSA 9
    1973 Topps #614 Rookie Outfielders (Dwight Evans RC) in PSA 9
    1979 Topps #680 Carlton Fisk in PSA 10




    My Sets
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 3,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: K
    At the end of the day, if you're using an SMR to determine value you're going to get burned.

    Here's a helpful tip...

    Go to this website: vintagecardprices.com

    Make an account

    Get educated

    Now you know; and knowing is half the battle!


    Invaluable!!
  • IndianaJonesIndianaJones Posts: 314 ✭✭✭
    Does the PSA Price Guide staff listen to suggestions, with reasoning of course?

    Who would be the best person to contact at PSA to make a price guide change?

    How would I get a hold of them?

    Thanks. ---Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)
  • I do use vintagecardprices and agree that's the way to go, it's just strange that PSA wouldn't track sales as well to give us a true guide instead of a generic every PSA 9 common is $12 when we all know this is not true.
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's like Beckett values, except it's free. How accurate can you expect it to be when the market is shifting drastically monthly/weekly/daily recently and PSA's not making any money off of it? Personally, I'd much rather they invest in paid for services and decreasing turnaround times than wasting any effort trying to make the price guide 'accurate'. VCP, elite-cards, and eBay completed listings should be the go to sources for this info.
  • KK Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭
    I will say that as far as high end cards from the mid 50's and back through all the pre-war stuff they are pretty good. They track prices of the Big 3 like hawks.
    Looking for:
    1972 Topps #88 AL RBI Leaders in PSA 9
    1973 Topps #614 Rookie Outfielders (Dwight Evans RC) in PSA 9
    1979 Topps #680 Carlton Fisk in PSA 10




    My Sets
  • steel75steel75 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭
    Has PSA ever considered a "paid service" price guide?
    1970's Steelers, Vintage Indians
  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭✭
    K is correct, the only viable website to track cards is VCP. Caveat...VCP does not include every card ever made, however, a simple request will eventually see that card entered into their data base...BUT, it does not go back in time to capture past sales.



    You also have to keep in mind that the vast majority of card data in the POP report, which tends to generate card values, has at this point become almost useless...why? Because of the change to the half-point system. Simple Econ101 drives the point of supply and demand...therefore, as an example, a PSA 7(NQ) that once had a POP of 4 or 5, and now has rocketed to a POP of 20 or so, has driven the value of the card downward...but this is a false premise. Untold THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of crackout PSA 7s, have left "ghost" PSA7s in their wake. When the flip isn't sent in to adjust the POP report, the original card lives on forever, but does not exist. This process can easily be applied to thousands of PSA 4s, 5s, 6s and 7s, which I think comprise the vast majority of crackouts.



    Seeking a higher PSA # is generated by the desire for a more valuable card...who wouldn't want that? However, if you keep cracking and cracking the previous cards never get accounted for and forever damage the POP report. Sadly, PSA never took this into account when they opted for the half-point change...this was done merely to generate income. If you hold a PSA 7 and a PSA 7.5 of the same player at arms length, can you tell the difference?



    As for pricing, I think PSA has been woefully behind the curve on this issue. How on earth could they possibly keep up with the tens of thousands of cards...impossible.



    Having once been an avid Red Sox card collector and the 1955 Topps set (thus the handle), I am in awe of the POPs I see today. There is simply no way these changes came from raw submission, nor from SGC or other grading arenas. Card # 3 in the 55T set, Art Fowler in a PSA 7, used to be a pretty hard card to come by, now there are 91 !!



    VCP is the ONLY source available for viable data. Use PSA accounting data at your peril.



  • Great thoughts, thanks for sharing.



    Unrelated question, to have a chance at a PSA 9 should a card look perfect to the naked eye? In other words if you can see even the slightest flaw, is it going to come back at best a 8? Speaking only of 1975 Topps here. Have roughly 20 very low 1975 Topps singles I want to submit and having never sent before am wondering if I am wasting time thinking they might get some 9's in the group. Thanks!
  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭✭
    Send them in, only PSA can determine the grade.

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained.



    I once sent in a Gus Triandos, #64 from the 55 Topps set. I recall that it was an SGC34, it came back a PSA 8.5!! I almost had a stroke, what luck. I bought the card for about $30, and sold it for somewhere in the $800s.



    Miracles do happen!!
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2017 2:15PM

    The pop report is totally off as well as the SMR, talking about a set I'm familiar with the 1952 Bowman Large Football set the low pop SP's right now are going for 10 times the SMR as we speak, John Schweder for example has a live bid for $1600+ on ebay right now and the SMR is not even close to that number. I have personally cracked out a dozen or so lower pop PSA 8's and resubmitted them over the years.

  • I know there are competing interests, but is there are any opportunity for PSA SMR and VCP to forge some sort of alliance to produce a single, market assessment of values that would benefit many involved who have a vested interest?

  • 1955 Topps All American Football: #17 Bob Reynolds PSA 7 SMR is $32. Good luck with that! PSA 8 SMR is $80... Not happening either for anything under three figures.

    I am totally against paid price guides. I think if PSA were to maintain their price guide a bit better it would drive more demand for graded items which is something they make money off of.

    "The Mile High Collection" Working to complete my set of 1955 Topps Football All Americans
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 21,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Price guides are basically useless

  • I have to agree with perkdog, these days price guides are pretty useless. I just started buying PSA graded cards a month ago and have bought about 45 cards, not one of them was priced as low as any price guide or average shows. So you just decide if you want the card or not and buy it or not...

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭✭

    @DMasci said:
    I have to agree with perkdog, these days price guides are pretty useless. I just started buying PSA graded cards a month ago and have bought about 45 cards, not one of them was priced as low as any price guide or average shows. So you just decide if you want the card or not and buy it or not...

    This is what I do to determine a fair price...
    Next to the link you used to get here, which was "RESOURCES", click the link to it's immediate left, called "AUCTION PRICES".
    In the search window, type in the set or player you are interested in. For instance, for the 1955 Topps set, you just type in "1955 Topps baseball". Then the entire set comes up...click on the card you want to see. A link then comes up with the grades of the cards. Click the grade you are interested in, say PSA 7. Now comes every sale within a reasonable time frame. I take the last four, toss out any crazy numbers and take an average. I add that info to my excel spreadsheet as a guide. For the set/player I'm currently collecting, I have the grades of 6,7,8 listed next to the card. I then decide on what I'm willing to pay, based upon the average I get and put in a snipe for the card. I automatically eliminate any qualifiers. Works for me.

    The SMR and other nonsense pricing guides are indeed useless...market conditions change daily.

  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭

    The only other factor I will normally consider is the pop count of the particular card. For example, if I'm looking at a vintage card with a PSA 9 pop of 30, I would probably be willing to pay a little more than even recent sales if normal counts in that set are, let's say, in the 40's or 50's.

  • As mentioned, my experience with PSA cards is about 1 month so I don't know if there is a sudden demand for 80s football or not but cards graded 9,10 that are little more than commons are being sold for crazy amounts. Or at least trying to be sold. It seems cards are selling for much now than just months ago. Yes I know you can get a bargain using a sniping tool for an auction item but many or buy it now and asking 4-5 times what the average is for that card. Now I know since I'm working on a HOF set most are not commons and my thinking is if you pay approximately $20 to get a card graded than anything around $20 for a 9 or 10 is a pretty good price without waiting to have it graded. I'll just keep plugging along :-)

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 7,374 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just looked at prices for 1990 Griffey Topps cards in PSA 10. Doesn't seem to have been updated for a while.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭

    I can say the the prices for the sets I'm actively collecting (and check frequently) never change. Maybe the real headliners of the set will be updated but seems very infrequently

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