It's truly amazing how much less football andbasketball cards sell for
olb31
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versus baseball. 1964 Unitas PSA 9 sells for around $350, 1972 West PSA 9 $100. Can you imagine a Roberto Clemente 1964 psa 9 selling for $350, or Sandy K 1964 for PSA 9 for $350? Or a 1972 Pete Rose PSA 9 for $100.
Football and Basketball are light years ahead of Baseball in viewership, popularity, etc. yet the baseball cards still dominate. Now some of the Rookie cards of the other sports are somewhat keeping up, but that's about it. I would guess that more people (in the general population) know Kurt Warner the QB than Adrian Beltre, Bartolo Colon (the active leader in wins), CC Sabathia (second active leader in wins), Carlos Beltran, etc.
When if ever does it change? Personally, without knowledge of value, I would rather have a 1964 Unitas over 1964 Clemente. TO me in the 1964 Unitas, should be Mantle, for football, but his values pale in comparison. Any thoughts?
Football and Basketball are light years ahead of Baseball in viewership, popularity, etc. yet the baseball cards still dominate. Now some of the Rookie cards of the other sports are somewhat keeping up, but that's about it. I would guess that more people (in the general population) know Kurt Warner the QB than Adrian Beltre, Bartolo Colon (the active leader in wins), CC Sabathia (second active leader in wins), Carlos Beltran, etc.
When if ever does it change? Personally, without knowledge of value, I would rather have a 1964 Unitas over 1964 Clemente. TO me in the 1964 Unitas, should be Mantle, for football, but his values pale in comparison. Any thoughts?
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For many collectors of today, having cards of your childhood is what makes this an exciting hobby. And baseball cards were what most of us collected.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Marc..... I think Lebron will pass Kobe and be a notch below MJ. His regular Topps Chrome jumped from $350 to selling regularly at $650-$700 after winning the title. I think before everything is said and done, his TC regular could top over $2K. I think it's a great buy now.
Totally agree that Basketball cards are very reasonable in price, but yet very under valued.
To me, this has nothing to with Kobe, LeBron and investments.
To address the original concept of this thread, I'd say to the OP that the sentiment of wanting a nice Unitas card in PSA 9 is great, but landing a high grade Clemente is still way more exciting. I try and try to embrace the other sports through the accumulation of cards. But, everything always leads me back to baseball. The fact that the other sports cards are reasonably priced today, doesn't mean that they someday won't reach another level of importance to collectors. The group of buyers may be smaller but no less enthused about it.
In the 1964 example you mentioned, the pop for the 1964 Unitas and Clemente are both 44, but there are 3 times as many Clementes subbed than Unitas. I would expect the Clemente to be much higher.
That being said, the 1960's stars tend be undervalued compared to the 1970's and even 1980's football stars. I would argue that the 1980's football RCs in PSA 10 are in the same ballpark as baseball. You're right that Unitas should be higher based on his historical impact in terms of QBs, but my first association with him was when his records starting getting broken by Marino, Favre, Manning, etc. The productive part of his career basically ended in 1970, so he missed the golden era of football on TV.
For football the mid-1960's are a little bit of an anomaly. I think the AFL/NFL split between Philadelphia and Topps dilutes the collecting interest. Plus there seems to be more high grade football cards from the mid-60's. I'm guessing that there must have been a lot of unopened boxes at one time that got cracked later on.
In the 1964 example you mentioned, the pop for the 1964 Unitas and Clemente are both 44, but there are 3 times as many Clementes subbed than Unitas. I would expect the Clemente to be much higher.
That being said, the 1960's stars tend be undervalued compared to the 1970's and even 1980's football stars. I would argue that the 1980's football RCs in PSA 10 are in the same ballpark as baseball. You're right that Unitas should be higher based on his historical impact in terms of QBs, but my first association with him was when his records starting getting broken by Marino, Favre, Manning, etc. The productive part of his career basically ended in 1970, so he missed the golden era of football on TV.
1964 clemente psa 8 sells for around $800 or so depending on centering (4sc is asking $1,100 for theirs), the unitas psa 9 just sold for 380. HUH????
Good for buyers of football, basketball and hockey cards however.
Kevin
The cards I remember the most from a kid are the football cards. Sure, I remember the baseball cards and basketball cards (not much of the hockey) but when I got back into collecting I really only had a desire to buy the football cards. It's odd, because 85% of my collection was baseball and had been in a closet for close to 30 years.
Also agree on the Philadelphia Gum / Topps issue in the mid-1960's watering down price. For me as a Cowboys collector, there are some great Cowboys in those Philadelphia gum sets - major star rookies like Mel Renfro (HOF, Cowboys Ring of Honor), Chuck Howley (ROH, Super Bowl MVP), Bob Hayes (HOF, ROH), Lee Roy Jordan (ROH) and very good player rookies like George Andrie, Mike Clark, Cornell Green, Pettis Norman, Tony Liscio, etc. that had a big impact on the Cowboys and played with them for a long time.
That the AFL Topps sets, particularly 65-67, seem so popular (Namath, cough) helps keep the cost of the Philadelphia Gum sets down and affordable for collectors like me. Hope that doesn't change any time soon!
The Doomsday Collection
Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor | All-Time Dallas Cowboys | Bob Lilly Master | Pro Football HOF Dallas Cowboys
IG: goatcollectibles23
The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
versus baseball. 1964 Unitas PSA 9 sells for around $350, 1972 West PSA 9 $100. Can you imagine a Roberto Clemente 1964 psa 9 selling for $350, or Sandy K 1964 for PSA 9 for $350? Or a 1972 Pete Rose PSA 9 for $100.
Football and Basketball are light years ahead of Baseball in viewership, popularity, etc. yet the baseball cards still dominate. Now some of the Rookie cards of the other sports are somewhat keeping up, but that's about it. I would guess that more people (in the general population) know Kurt Warner the QB than Adrian Beltre, Bartolo Colon (the active leader in wins), CC Sabathia (second active leader in wins), Carlos Beltran, etc.
When if ever does it change? Personally, without knowledge of value, I would rather have a 1964 Unitas over 1964 Clemente. TO me in the 1964 Unitas, should be Mantle, for football, but his values pale in comparison. Any thoughts?
Just fast forward to 1986 and basketball and football far outpaces baseball!
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
Perhaps it's not enough to cause concern for many here who collect to hold forever but what about the kids of those collectors who may not be as attached and look to sell off an inherited collection? Just a thought that the popped into my tiny little brain.
Kevin
^^^ That's an interesting point. Makes me curious about the prospects of trying to sell the high end baseball cards of the 50s', 60s', & 70s' in a few decades as the pool of baseball fans shrinks (if, in fact, it will) due to the rise in popularity of football especially and basketball also? I mean the ultra high end low pop cards may hold but what about everything else?
Perhaps it's not enough to cause concern for many here who collect to hold forever but what about the kids of those collectors who may not be as attached and look to sell off an inherited collection? Just a thought that the popped into my tiny little brain.
That is going to take a while considering that a lot of the baseball card market are cards 75+ years old. The real issue is what is going to happen to the modern football card collectors now that Topps and to a lesser degree Upper Deck are gone? Panini is cranking out a ton of 2016 product and they all are pretty much the same. I liked the Donruss product, but the rest are overpriced and have zero collector value. How can you build a following for a product that has 3 cards per box? There is not set building or even player collecting at that level. Plus the rookies are short printed so much that it is not worth opening new product for a chance to pull them. I bought a box of 2016 Gala Football and the two rookie autos were a DB and a 5th rd RB. There is no way those rookies should be in a $230/box product.
Very scary what the same insert of MJ vs Malone goes for
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
That is going to take a while considering that a lot of the baseball card market are cards 75+ years old.
******None of the following is stated to start a dust up I'm just trying to clarify my thought (perhaps even to my self) and hopefully get you to do the same for yours.*****
I'm not sure I understand why you feel that would take a while (depending on what both of our definitions of a while are) Because that's kind of my point, that baseball cards are, to a certain extent, eventually going to age out. Sure the truly iconic baseball cards in the best condition will hold perhaps, but what of the others? I mean we joke here about the "Buying Group" but really how many of the cards bought recently by true collectors drove those price spikes? And even if they were true collectors (and by that I mean people who are planing on holding them indefinitely or until they can aquire a nicer copy) how many true collectors will be out there in 10, 20, 30 years willing to plunk down 10s of thousands of dollars for a card of a player they never watched play but gee their Grandfather really liked them. None of this is meant as a dig against baseball but as more of a intellectual exercise in what may (or may not) happen over time.
To quote the great Dr. Lector:
"And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? No. We begin by coveting what we see every day."
I am a prime example of this idea. I played hockey growing up. I watched hockey growing up. I now collect hockey. I'm in my 40s smack dab in the middle of "Generation X". What about Generation Y? The Millennials? From the start of organized sports in this country until perhaps the 80's Basball was it. Sure there were the goofballs like me who grew up too close to the border breathing all that Canadian air that blew over and started liking hockey. There where also the other kids who grew up in the heartland of America who grew up playing Basketball & Football. But Baseball was King. Now? I don't think it would rank the same.
Take look at the numbers for top 50 watched sporting events in 2015:
http://www.sportsmediawatch.co...basketball-nba-finals/
2015 marked 30 years since the NFL over took MLB as the most watched sport in America.
On top of that participation in team youth sports is down.
(I was SHOCKED when I saw hockey but 0 plus .00001 IS a dramatic rise)
Frankly I think the steroid era, while many purist may say was bad for the game, actually extended its shelf life. The only time in my whole entire life that I even remotely followed baseball was during the McGuire/Sosa chase of the HR record. Again I'm not bashing baseball I live in a glass ice rink. I'm just wondering how many passionate deep pocketed Baseball fans will be out there when the Millennials hit middle age and have the kinds of disposable income needed to purchase the card of a player they never heard of who plays a sport they don't watch?
Who knows maybe it will be graded Pokemon that rules the day. I do agree with you 100% that the way the card company's are pumping out cards today at $250 a pack for crap sucks (and yes I've bought them. And yes I've learned my lesson).
I'll close with a thought for the group whose name shall never be spoken before I go watch my DVRd Canada vs Russia WCOH game :
Think long term. If over 60% of the population today identifies themselves as Football fans be it either NCAA or NFL why aren't you buying up every single early NFL HOFer you can get your hands on so that you can cash in when the Millennials decide to collect the NFL equivalent of the Honus Wagner.
******Disclaimer. LOTSOS, AKA Kevin does not own a single Football card nor will he because he's not in this for the money, the glory, or even like to watch football. Yes I did truly inhale too much of that Canadian air as a kid even though I could hear the the crowd on Sunday's at Rich Stadium from my front yard.******
Edited to make even more spelling and grammatical errors.
Kevin
.....baseball cards are, to a certain extent, eventually going to age out.
No. They won't.
The identity of our passion will ALWAYS be defined by one simple term: Baseball Cards.
When people ask me what I do and I try to explain it in any other terms or by any other definition, I get puzzled looks and responses.
"What do you do?"
"I deal in sports cards."
"Oh, you mean like Porsches and Mazeratis?"
Sigh. "I'm a baseball card guy."
"OOOOHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"
There is a place for each of our sports to be catalogued & dissected. But, we will still go to the 'Baseball Card Store' because they are in the 'Baseball Card Business'.
IG: goatcollectibles23
The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
^^^ That's an interesting point. Makes me curious about the prospects of trying to sell the high end baseball cards of the 50s', 60s', & 70s' in a few decades as the pool of baseball fans shrinks (if, in fact, it will) due to the rise in popularity of football especially and basketball also? I mean the ultra high end low pop cards may hold but what about everything else?
Perhaps it's not enough to cause concern for many here who collect to hold forever but what about the kids of those collectors who may not be as attached and look to sell off an inherited collection? Just a thought that the popped into my tiny little brain.
That is going to take a while considering that a lot of the baseball card market are cards 75+ years old. The real issue is what is going to happen to the modern football card collectors now that Topps and to a lesser degree Upper Deck are gone? Panini is cranking out a ton of 2016 product and they all are pretty much the same. I liked the Donruss product, but the rest are overpriced and have zero collector value. How can you build a following for a product that has 3 cards per box? There is not set building or even player collecting at that level. Plus the rookies are short printed so much that it is not worth opening new product for a chance to pull them. I bought a box of 2016 Gala Football and the two rookie autos were a DB and a 5th rd RB. There is no way those rookies should be in a $230/box product.
This is what I am wondering as well. I own exactly 0 Panini cards and have no interest in getting any. Of course my main area of interest is 80's football, but I also have dabbled in the modern stuff. I guess that stops at 2015 (at least for me). Im curious how many football collectors feel the same way.
^^^ That's an interesting point. Makes me curious about the prospects of trying to sell the high end baseball cards of the 50s', 60s', & 70s' in a few decades as the pool of baseball fans shrinks (if, in fact, it will) due to the rise in popularity of football especially and basketball also? I mean the ultra high end low pop cards may hold but what about everything else?
Perhaps it's not enough to cause concern for many here who collect to hold forever but what about the kids of those collectors who may not be as attached and look to sell off an inherited collection? Just a thought that the popped into my tiny little brain.
That is going to take a while considering that a lot of the baseball card market are cards 75+ years old. The real issue is what is going to happen to the modern football card collectors now that Topps and to a lesser degree Upper Deck are gone? Panini is cranking out a ton of 2016 product and they all are pretty much the same. I liked the Donruss product, but the rest are overpriced and have zero collector value. How can you build a following for a product that has 3 cards per box? There is not set building or even player collecting at that level. Plus the rookies are short printed so much that it is not worth opening new product for a chance to pull them. I bought a box of 2016 Gala Football and the two rookie autos were a DB and a 5th rd RB. There is no way those rookies should be in a $230/box product.
This is what I am wondering as well. I own exactly 0 Panini cards and have no interest in getting any. Of course my main area of interest is 80's football, but I also have dabbled in the modern stuff. I guess that stops at 2015 (at least for me). Im curious how many football collectors feel the same way.
I've already seen demand pick up for 2015 Topps Chrome, Chrome Mini, and Finest. Topps photography really made for attractive cards, especially in Chrome. Chrome Mini may be a sleeper product since I don't think it had the print run of regular Chrome. It seems like Panini just takes the same player pics and photoshop them on a different background. I think Panini is already 20 products into 2016 and I can't tell any of them apart.
ZYAAOSwjXRXYId~">Not a gimmick!
Shows what I know. It would be interesting to see if this card ends up going to the Buying Group or if it heads north of the border.
Kevin