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Household Limit Lifted on Gold SLQs
RKKay
Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭
Just got an email from the Mint. The household limit has been lifted.
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RIP Mom- 1932-2012
no axe to grind and no interest in the item --- but, I think the above post is very insightful. what it essentially says is that "flippers" are the ones who have effectively hijacked the US Mint programs for their own enrichment, with the end result being a distortion of the sales, higher prices to those who actually want to own the products and the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
if I were in charge I would make these releases open-ended, order as many as you want and we will strike as needed. of course the "flippers" would be PO'd and lose some revenue, but so what. Mint products should be about the collector and not the dealer.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Cheers
Bob
They really botched the marketing on this one. Should have been a 10 per household limit like the gold Mercs. It would have sold out first day. If they pull this crap with the Walker I'm not going to bother. I can't resell these at a profit now because everyone can still buy them for $485. Waste of time.
no axe to grind and no interest in the item --- but, I think the above post is very insightful. what it essentially says is that "flippers" are the ones who have effectively hijacked the US Mint programs for their own enrichment, with the end result being a distortion of the sales, higher prices to those who actually want to own the products and the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
if I were in charge I would make these releases open-ended, order as many as you want and we will strike as needed. of course the "flippers" would be PO'd and lose some revenue, but so what. Mint products should be about the collector and not the dealer.
+1
Not as popular as the mint thought that they would have been...should of made them in silver!
Also, adding the weight and purity to the design didn't help. They also could have struck it close to the same size.
Just my eversohumble opinion
Cheers
Bob
All that said it will be interesting to see whether we see the 100,000 limit for the gold SLQ met in short order now that the ordering limit has been lifted.
They really botched the marketing on this one. Should have been a 10 per household limit like the gold Mercs. It would have sold out first day. If they pull this crap with the Walker I'm not going to bother. I can't resell these at a profit now because everyone can still buy them for $485. Waste of time.
no axe to grind and no interest in the item --- but, I think the above post is very insightful. what it essentially says is that "flippers" are the ones who have effectively hijacked the US Mint programs for their own enrichment, with the end result being a distortion of the sales, higher prices to those who actually want to own the products and the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
if I were in charge I would make these releases open-ended, order as many as you want and we will strike as needed. of course the "flippers" would be PO'd and lose some revenue, but so what. Mint products should be about the collector and not the dealer.
Interesting point, but does the modern collector really want unlimited mintage coins? Or do they enjoy the special issues that they have maybe work a bit to get? If the mint makes everything unlimited, I can see less collector interest and fewer sales. IMO the mint has to create modern "rarities" from time to time, or everything is a just a bowl of vanilla ice cream.
I understand the dislike of flipping, but I don't think unlimited mintage for every mint product is any better for the collector and it might be worse.
They really botched the marketing on this one. Should have been a 10 per household limit like the gold Mercs. It would have sold out first day. If they pull this crap with the Walker I'm not going to bother. I can't resell these at a profit now because everyone can still buy them for $485. Waste of time.
no axe to grind and no interest in the item --- but, I think the above post is very insightful. what it essentially says is that "flippers" are the ones who have effectively hijacked the US Mint programs for their own enrichment, with the end result being a distortion of the sales, higher prices to those who actually want to own the products and the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
if I were in charge I would make these releases open-ended, order as many as you want and we will strike as needed. of course the "flippers" would be PO'd and lose some revenue, but so what. Mint products should be about the collector and not the dealer.
Interesting point, but does the modern collector really want unlimited mintage coins? Or do they enjoy the special issues that they have maybe work a bit to get? If the mint makes everything unlimited, I can see less collector interest and fewer sales. IMO the mint has to create modern "rarities" from time to time, or everything is a just a bowl of vanilla ice cream.
I understand the dislike of flipping, but I don't think unlimited mintage for every mint product is any better for the collector and it might be worse.
I agree with Gman and while I have only flipped once in the last 5 plus years it's still nice to know that if you did want to sell you had a limited mintage item for sale.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
These may a good one to pick up at less then issue price if gold cycles downward.
at this time I will wait for the chocolate gold foil versions these also will have no limits so it is a win-win.
I wont be a buyer.
These may a good one to pick up at less then issue price if gold cycles downward.
at this time I will wait for the chocolate gold foil versions these also will have no limits so it is a win-win.
I'm with you on that note.????
They really botched the marketing on this one. Should have been a 10 per household limit like the gold Mercs. It would have sold out first day. If they pull this crap with the Walker I'm not going to bother. I can't resell these at a profit now because everyone can still buy them for $485. Waste of time.
no axe to grind and no interest in the item --- but, I think the above post is very insightful. what it essentially says is that "flippers" are the ones who have effectively hijacked the US Mint programs for their own enrichment, with the end result being a distortion of the sales, higher prices to those who actually want to own the products and the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
if I were in charge I would make these releases open-ended, order as many as you want and we will strike as needed. of course the "flippers" would be PO'd and lose some revenue, but so what. Mint products should be about the collector and not the dealer.
If the releases were open ended then collectors would switch to whining about there not being any scarce issues anymore. Mint products should be about anyone and everyone who wants them. I'm not a flipper; I'm a small dealer that had customers for some of these new issues...but the switcheroo with order limits and game playing after the first wave has hit basically sticks me with coins I can't easily sell now. Sorry but the reality is that a dealer needs to turn a profit on what he sells. Everyone whines about the playing field not being level...If the mint wants to level the field then keep a reasonable limit, say 10 like with the Mercs...raise the mintage a bit to say 150k or 200k, then make it first come, first served until the item is sold out. Seems the "collectors" don't mind it when they make money on something but for some reason they begrudge it to people doing it for a living.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I wont be a buyer.
These may a good one to pick up at less then issue price if gold cycles downward.
at this time I will wait for the chocolate gold foil versions these also will have no limits so it is a win-win.
Of course on the UHRs those who got in on the original ordering limit did quite well with regard to the price of gold having skyrocketed.
Personally, I think it would have been much better if both the dime and the quarter were struck in clad for circulation and struck in silver for collectors. A nice change from the current tired, old, crappy designs.
Just my eversohumble opinion
Cheers
Bob
+1M
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
who will pay MELT for mine?
Oh, I'm so disillusioned now.
I had dreams of future 1933 Saint fame being eclipsed by the astute individuals who had the OUTSTANDING foresight to get a gold SLQ......
prior to the mint MELTING all the overage
and hunting down DUPLICATES
and making me RICH !!!!!!
uhhh..dollar.
junk "coins" but I liked the SLQ design and that's the only one I want corrupting my ...numismatic... stuff.
does the modern collector really want unlimited mintage coins? Or do they enjoy the special issues that they have maybe work a bit to get?
I thought I read on here that they just want to stare at the beautiful coin
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
STARING!
what we love to do.
in a nutshell
staring.
BYOOTEEFUL!
yum
They really botched the marketing on this one. Should have been a 10 per household limit like the gold Mercs. It would have sold out first day. If they pull this crap with the Walker I'm not going to bother. I can't resell these at a profit now because everyone can still buy them for $485. Waste of time.
no axe to grind and no interest in the item --- but, I think the above post is very insightful. what it essentially says is that "flippers" are the ones who have effectively hijacked the US Mint programs for their own enrichment, with the end result being a distortion of the sales, higher prices to those who actually want to own the products and the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
if I were in charge I would make these releases open-ended, order as many as you want and we will strike as needed. of course the "flippers" would be PO'd and lose some revenue, but so what. Mint products should be about the collector and not the dealer.
The nice people on eBay don't know where coins come from.
So flippers buy them from the Mint and sell them on eBay.
It is a time honored tradition.
They really botched the marketing on this one. Should have been a 10 per household limit like the gold Mercs. It would have sold out first day. If they pull this crap with the Walker I'm not going to bother. I can't resell these at a profit now because everyone can still buy them for $485. Waste of time.
no axe to grind and no interest in the item --- but, I think the above post is very insightful. what it essentially says is that "flippers" are the ones who have effectively hijacked the US Mint programs for their own enrichment, with the end result being a distortion of the sales, higher prices to those who actually want to own the products and the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
if I were in charge I would make these releases open-ended, order as many as you want and we will strike as needed. of course the "flippers" would be PO'd and lose some revenue, but so what. Mint products should be about the collector and not the dealer.
+1
Couldn't agree more.Well said.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Here's the deal. Gold 1/4 oz Centennial......$485.
Proof Gold 1/4 oz AGE.............$435
A Quick Calculation reveals a tidy $200/oz premium over and above the VERY HEALTHY premium being charged by the Mint for Proof American Gold Eagles.
(And they wonder why nobody jumps when they lift the limit.)
Mint ---------------------------- 'doh
I knew it would happen.
I'LL MAKE EM SORRY!
I knew it would happen.
They really botched the marketing on this one. Should have been a 10 per household limit like the gold Mercs. It would have sold out first day. If they pull this crap with the Walker I'm not going to bother. I can't resell these at a profit now because everyone can still buy them for $485. Waste of time.
no axe to grind and no interest in the item --- but, I think the above post is very insightful. what it essentially says is that "flippers" are the ones who have effectively hijacked the US Mint programs for their own enrichment, with the end result being a distortion of the sales, higher prices to those who actually want to own the products and the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
I agree with your second paragraph in its entirety. It seems that many of the higher prices that some of the modern issues have in the secondary market at first are caused by an artificial, temporary supply shortage caused by hoarding by the flippers. Once the market becomes saturated, the prices fall back to the true value.
As for those claiming that this will kill dealer interest and harm the series, I am not sure I agree. I think many collectors are tired of the higher prices caused by the flippers and have given up or are now waiting a few years to buy one at a realistic price. I also think the ridiculous mark-up the Mint is charging to the actual gold value is hurting interest.
The problem for the mint is the packaging, if they ordered all 100,000 packages and it doesn't sell out then they could have a lot left over. I can't remember which coin but in the recent past they got stuck with a lot.
They spend too much on the "pretty packaging", imho.
I don't think the coins should just be sent out in a capsule by itself, but some of the packaging has been, imho, a bit extreme. Especially when they make them non-standard sizes when it comes to mailing.
Too many people get the packaging and just throw it away...creates a lot of unnecessary waste. Again, imho.
(and, this is coming from a guy who keeps most/all of the packaging on products....the SAE anniversary sets, etc).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
the overriding opinion that the Mint screws us.
Here's the deal. Gold 1/4 oz Centennial......$485.
Proof Gold 1/4 oz AGE.............$435
A Quick Calculation reveals a tidy $200/oz premium over and above the VERY HEALTHY premium being charged by the Mint for Proof American Gold Eagles.
(And they wonder why nobody jumps when they lift the limit.)
Mint ---------------------------- 'doh
Thank you for pointing out something I've been trying to get across for years. The big winner in all this is the Mint. People wail about dealers making a buck on the aftermarket for their time and investment...but the Mint always makes money regardless. For every fluke issue that does well on the aftermarket there are dozens that go the other way. No one minds when the local guy takes it in the shorts on all the losers...only when they accidentally make a buck on the rare winner.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I don't understand this statement. How many coins did you buy when there was a cap of one per household? More than the number of customers you had lined up?
The problem for the mint is the packaging, if they ordered all 100,000 packages and it doesn't sell out then they could have a lot left over. I can't remember which coin but in the recent past they got stuck with a lot.
They spend too much on the "pretty packaging", imho.
I don't think the coins should just be sent out in a capsule by itself, but some of the packaging has been, imho, a bit extreme. Especially when they make them non-standard sizes when it comes to mailing.
Too many people get the packaging and just throw it away...creates a lot of unnecessary waste. Again, imho.
(and, this is coming from a guy who keeps most/all of the packaging on products....the SAE anniversary sets, etc).
The Mint would serve its customers better if they made the fancy packaging optional. Offer a choice, basic packaging or fancy, with an appropriate cost of course. They just may discover that the basic option is the one chosen most of the time.
the only problem with this answer and the post which prompted it is that it only focuses on the spot price of Gold, as though all the Mint does is buy a Gold coin and re-sell it for profit --- NEWS FLASH --- that's what you do, the US Mint actually makes something and are entitled to make a profit on that, aren't they?????
there is more involved in the striking of this or any other coin than just paying for the alloy that is sold. there is the making of the dies, workers to be paid, advertising, packaging, etc., etc., etc..................
your thinking, the thinking of flipping these for profit is the big problem, the US Mint and what they ARE and DO is what the real solution in the Nation should be and used to be. consider:
any strong economy, any vibrant and growing economy needs a healthy Manufacturing base that everything else can build on. currently the USA has an economy comprised of four legs, if you will:
Technology.
Medical/Health Care.
Service.
Finance/Investment.
there is something that workers in the Manufacturing sector have known since the late 1960's and early 1970's, that we were becoming a "Service" based economy and Manufacturing is disappearing. I knew it as a High School student entering the job market in 1973.
perhaps the most disgusting aspect is the Financial leg, people who make money by using money. that is where "flippers" fit into everything, and they have hurt our Hobby the same as they have hurt our Nations economy. can anyone actually say that they think it's a good thing that sellers should be able to buy up the entire Mintage of product, shut out the actual collector and then force them to pay a healthy premium to obtain a collectible coin??
that is a perversion of the way the Hobby and the US Mint should be working and it is a recent development, probably 20 or so years in the making. as I am fond of saying, this website and this Hobby are a nice microcosm of American society as a whole.
so sad you can't flip this for a profit by doing nothing to add to it's inflated value except being able to buy all of them from the manufacturer before I have a chance.
the only problem with this answer and the post which prompted it is that it only focuses on the spot price of Gold, as though all the Mint does is buy a Gold coin and re-sell it for profit --- NEWS FLASH --- that's what you do, the US Mint actually makes something and are entitled to make a profit on that, aren't they?????"
So dealers who buy hundreds and thousands of mint products over the course of a year shouldn't be allowed to profit by reselling because they didn't make the items. Using your same logic Walmart shouldn't be entitled to make any money because they didn't actually make any of the products they sell. My point was that people complain about dealers making an occasional profit on hot issues but they have no problem when it is they who profit the same way. It's called hypocrisy. And regardless of whether the item is a rare winner or the more common loser, over time the Mint still has made substantially more money than any aftermarket sellers that are decried by some here as somehow evil or unethical for having the audacity to *gasp* turn a profit on something. Like I said...reasonable limits with slightly higher mintages would make most everyone happy-both the collectors and those who resell in the aftermarket.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
to your point, I think you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying, you just don't agree with me because you're sore about the switch by the Mint. that's understandable.
Using your same logic
to your point, I think you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying, you just don't agree with me because you're sore about the switch by the Mint. that's understandable.
Thinly veiled condescension aside, I understand your point perfectly. You feel that collectors are somehow getting shafted when a hot issue comes out and they happen to miss out, especially if they can't participate in making aftermarket money. I don't cry if I miss the cut when something sells out; it's called a free market. I either buy it aftermarket or do without. My solution..raise mintages, set sensible order limits, everyone's happy. Well, everyone except the diehard whiners who will never be happy...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
"People wail about dealers making a buck on the aftermarket for their time and investment...but the Mint always makes money regardless.
the only problem with this answer and the post which prompted it is that it only focuses on the spot price of Gold, as though all the Mint does is buy a Gold coin and re-sell it for profit --- NEWS FLASH --- that's what you do, the US Mint actually makes something and are entitled to make a profit on that, aren't they?????"
So dealers who buy hundreds and thousands of mint products over the course of a year shouldn't be allowed to profit by reselling because they didn't make the items. Using your same logic Walmart shouldn't be entitled to make any money because they didn't actually make any of the products they sell. My point was that people complain about dealers making an occasional profit on hot issues but they have no problem when it is they who profit the same way. It's called hypocrisy. And regardless of whether the item is a rare winner or the more common loser, over time the Mint still has made substantially more money than any aftermarket sellers that are decried by some here as somehow evil or unethical for having the audacity to *gasp* turn a profit on something. Like I said...reasonable limits with slightly higher mintages would make most everyone happy-both the collectors and those who resell in the aftermarket.
Middlemen are NEVER GUARANTEED a profit. The original "creator" is usually the one who has the best shot at a guaranteed profit (but, if things remain unsold, they can lose money).
In this case, the USMint pretty much is guaranteed a profit, but, no, dealers, no matter the volume, shouldn't be guaranteed a profit. They SHOULD be "allowed" a profit, but not guaranteed.
That said, if something is still "new" and "available" from the original source, imho, NO customer should be forced to buy from a 3rd party (at a markup). Obviously, on "hot issues", this is a bit different, but once the "hotness" is gone, then it is fair game for joe-blow to buy what he wants, direct
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
well, apparently you don't understand my point.
my point isn't about the collectors who "can't participate in making aftermarket money" because I believe they are in the minority, it is about true collectors who only want the product and can't buy directly from the Mint due to the nature of the promotion and sale. as a result they have no real alternatives except to do without or pay the marked-up price from sellers such as yourself.
to be honest, I have no stake in all of this, I don't purchase Mint Products. I just think it is a bit disingenuous of you to think you are being "shafted" by the Mint somehow. just man-up and admit you're PO'd because they pulled the rug out from under you and you can't profit from your good fortune of being able to get a limited issue item that collectors will have to pay a hefty premium to obtain.
I guarantee if you'll do that you'll be happier, but you continue to complain if you choose.
have a nice day!!!
"People wail about dealers making a buck on the aftermarket for their time and investment...but the Mint always makes money regardless.
the only problem with this answer and the post which prompted it is that it only focuses on the spot price of Gold, as though all the Mint does is buy a Gold coin and re-sell it for profit --- NEWS FLASH --- that's what you do, the US Mint actually makes something and are entitled to make a profit on that, aren't they?????"
So dealers who buy hundreds and thousands of mint products over the course of a year shouldn't be allowed to profit by reselling because they didn't make the items. Using your same logic Walmart shouldn't be entitled to make any money because they didn't actually make any of the products they sell. My point was that people complain about dealers making an occasional profit on hot issues but they have no problem when it is they who profit the same way. It's called hypocrisy. And regardless of whether the item is a rare winner or the more common loser, over time the Mint still has made substantially more money than any aftermarket sellers that are decried by some here as somehow evil or unethical for having the audacity to *gasp* turn a profit on something. Like I said...reasonable limits with slightly higher mintages would make most everyone happy-both the collectors and those who resell in the aftermarket.
Middlemen are NEVER GUARANTEED a profit. The original "creator" is usually the one who has the best shot at a guaranteed profit (but, if things remain unsold, they can lose money).
In this case, the USMint pretty much is guaranteed a profit, but, no, dealers, no matter the volume, shouldn't be guaranteed a profit. They SHOULD be "allowed" a profit, but not guaranteed.
That said, if something is still "new" and "available" from the original source, imho, NO customer should be forced to buy from a 3rd party (at a markup). Obviously, on "hot issues", this is a bit different, but once the "hotness" is gone, then it is fair game for joe-blow to buy what he wants, direct
Never said anything about being GUARANTEED a profit...but I'm glad that you agree we should at least be allowed one. Never said anyone must be "forced" to buy from a 3rd party either. Now in the case of sold out items, EVERYONE who wants one-collector, dealer, or whomever- essentially has to buy aftermarket. If you call that "forced", so be it... but again that's just part of buying low mintage coins. Not everyone is going to be able to get one from the source. Everyone has equal opportunity to own one, but some want to equate equal opportunity with equal results...and unfortunately it just doesn't work that way.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Does anyone know how many SLQ's remain unsold at the mint?
Fewer than 25k, if they minted 100k.