Seeking Advice on submission grading results

Sterlin18

Actually new to this particular message board however have been on forums before - Done some searching throughout some topics and notice some rather harsh talk with some good advice given and others not so much of a remedy per say



Let me first say its been fun for the first month back in "collecting" as its been over 20 years which I thought this would be a nice fun hobby to have aside from receiving some recent grades and questioning some of the submission grades Ive received back as well as watching the POP report - Like I said I'm rather new however maybe there is more insight I just haven't found through the search feature here on the site



Guess without overly flaming anything as I haven't actually received the cards back just yet (except for the order with the grades) I would like to know what are the proper ways to go about asking how they surmise a particular grade - Now the card in question which I submitted several is the 94' Arod Rookie Foil as well as the Rookie Foil Die Cut out of a hobby box (Have pictures and video of the card being pulled out of a hobby pack) Now when I used to collect this particular brand SP it was a rarity that I would see a die cut rookie let alone now 20+ years later the holy grail Arod of the 94' sp - Basically my concern is how is a card visually a 10 or maybe a 9 "by my eyes" then receive a grade of a "6" - Ive graded a few weeks prior and noticed had a crease in a regular rookie arod however wanted to feel what the grading would be like - None the less it came back a "6" which I could live with because it was understanding the fair process of grading as such with this particular foil card - Now this die cut I looked over and didn't even put a finger print on it and straight into a card saver looked absolutely beautiful (corners surface edges centering etc) out of all the regular rookie cards Ive sent in



I guess I'm just perplexed as I feel like someone woke up that morning that graded the card and was truly unfair as my understanding is that the "hobby boxes/packs" would hold to a higher standard then the basic boxes/packs (especially being vintage from 94')



Again Ill take any response I get and try the best course of action with your responses so I ask you take time in responding before a flame or oh you're a newbie etc - Been watching ebay which also have seen this card IRL a few rare times and HAVE NOT SEEN ONE as nice as the one I sent in - There was even a "9" on ebay that looked like someone had cut the top of the die cut and had chipping all over the back top of the card - I know what most of you are thinking is oh "we all think highly of 'our' cards sent in" - Let me say it again I have not seen a "9" nicer than this hobby card that I submitted



Essentially would like to know what I should do when I receive the cards back (hopefully its the same card/s) mainly for the sake of the post of the 94' sp die cut arod rookie foil



Hosted and signed up for pin interest as wasn't sure where to host the photos (If there is a better place to host or view the cards please let me know as not sure how great the view on pin interest will be) You all will see 3 graded cards lets call it 1) 2) 3) from left to right and also the back of the cards 1) 2) 3) from left to right - In NO particular order ALL 3 sp die cut rookies are graded 2 of them are "6"'s and 1 is a "9" - Now for the sake of this message would like everyone to take a moment and visually select one number from the front of the card photo (example "1") and one number from the back of the card photo (example "2") and have that in the response to this message as to which you believe is the 9 - Also any advice on how to move forward upon getting and understanding the grade when I get the card back - What course of action have some of you taken in the past on trying to validate their grade meaning what steps did you take (call email etc) to better understand the "poor" grade given



1994 sp alex rodriguez foil die cut rookie



Hate to start this way on the "boards" however not sure my stay will be long if this is what to expect and yes I understand these are "sensitive cards" however 4 points off a 10 is questionable on a card that appears virtually Mint

Batpig

Those photos just aren't good enough for an assessment. I'd also recommend photobucket and a scanner, but at any rate, I've learned to be very critical of my cards when it comes to grading. If you aren't using a jewelers loupe, theres stuff you're going to miss. As far as an explanation, you won't get one, so I wouldn't bother.

LarkinCollector

Originally posted by: mjohnatgt
Photobucket is probably a better place to host images. I would wait until the card comes back and take a look again. My guess on this issue would be edge wear. If it had a surface wrinkle (light crease), it would have gotten a 5.

If the wrinkle is on the front, yes it's an automatic 5, but on the back, it's an automatic 6.

I would look over the back very carefully when you have the card in hand (under a bright light in a dark room works best), nearly every 6 I've received when expecting a 9 or 10 was due to a slight surface wrinkle on the back. There are several defects which have a huge impact on technical grade, while negligible impact on eye appeal.

I concur on a scanner and Photobucket to make any sort of assessment from pics, though surface issues like wrinkles tend to be hidden still.

Sterlin18

Appreciate the feedback short term here from you all - yeah will have to wait to actually receive the cards back - Definitely understand about a slight surface or wrinkle however would of thought to of seen such when examining the card initially as that would stick out I would think and maybe even question sending it in - As stated in that long first post I had where initially had sent in an 94' arod rookie foil that it had a "front" crease/wrinkle about 1/8 of an inch maybe even less which the grade received a "6" as I wanted to understand what grade it would fetch - Not sure if that particular crease you could see on the "back" of that card Id have to look - That card non the less wasn't nearly as nice as the die cut foil as far corners edges centering etc were truly pristine which my understanding most likely is that there is some sort of crease or wrinkle in my die cut possibly from the replies above - Will just have to wait for it to get back here in the mail as stated above





PhotoBucket 94' SP Arod Foil

divecchia

Not a bad introduction, but a real name to go with "Sterlin18" would be nice. I always have trouble giving advice to people without at least knowing their first name.



I agree with Kyle "LarkinCollector" that it is likely a surface issue on the reverse that resulted in the PSA 6. It does not have to be a crease. It could be a surface scratch that did not even break the surface of the card, but would be visible under bright light when the card is tilted at an angle.



Edited to add:

This would be especially true on a lot of the newer cards that have a gloss coating (front and back) where the surface of the gloss is broken, but it did not go deep enough to reach the color on the surface of the card.



Donato

MrHockey

Die cut cards are brutal. Every one of the irregular edges is prone to issues, including tiny ripples/creases. That is very likely it.

Cakes

Originally posted by: MrHockey
Die cut cards are brutal. Every one of the irregular edges is prone to issues, including tiny ripples/creases. That is very likely it.

Great call on the die cuts. I hate them.

DanBessette

Originally posted by: Cakes

Originally posted by: MrHockey

Die cut cards are brutal. Every one of the irregular edges is prone to issues, including tiny ripples/creases. That is very likely it.

Great call on the die cuts. I hate them.

Die cuts and foil are both very difficult and condition sensitive. I'm sure you just missed a surface issue. Unfortunately, the fact that you took the card fresh out of a pack and put it in a CardSaver is irrelevant. Cards can be damaged before you ever open the pack.



And as for asking for an explanation of the grade? I agree, don't bother. You won't get one.

Sterlin18

Thanks for the positive criticism - Yeah I mean totally understand regarding the sensitive conditions - Back in the day would notice the chipping or off centering of the die cuts on the cards etc on this particular SP - From a "hobby pack" guess the expectation after looking over the card and visually seeing everything as mint as possible on the card come back a "6" is disappointing - Understanding that cards can be damaged before the pack is even opened is understood as well however in THIS particular shape that the card is in its highly doubtful that some minor discrepancies knock the card down to the grade given- Even if there is a minor surface issue that can actually cause the rest of the card to be that low of a grade? Trying to find better examples of this card on the market or around and I'm going to be honest I don't see one ...even in the "9" grade - For me as maybe for many of you all I like to "see" a virtually perfect card upon looking at it - Taking a look at the front of the card AND the back of the card I just don't see where it could be dropped to a "6" - Some of the 8's and 9's Ive put up against this card looking just on the front alone aren't even comparable - Not sure I would want a dinged corner white chipping or an off centered die cut 8 or 9 when I can virtually look at mine from the front and see a MINT if not 10 card pulled out of a hobby pack - Again having pulled plenty of cards from the SP packs which I'm really not sure out of all the ones I have pulled saw a rookie die cut or majority of the "overall sp cards" as pristine as this one and its sad it was graded a "6" - Still have some concern regarding the POP report during my grading which Ill get into later on hopefully to better understand whats being entered or unentered after already being entered and things of this nature - Do appreciate the responses thus far and look forward to receiving the card pictured above back

bobmoat

Brah, people are saying it can look mint and have one tiny barely perceptible wrinkle and be a 6. That's how the PSA guidelines work

DanBessette

Originally posted by: Sterlin18

Thanks for the positive criticism - Yeah I mean totally understand regarding the sensitive conditions - Back in the day would notice the chipping or off centering of the die cuts on the cards etc on this particular SP - From a "hobby pack" guess the expectation after looking over the card and visually seeing everything as mint as possible on the card come back a "6" is disappointing - Understanding that cards can be damaged before the pack is even opened is understood as well however in THIS particular shape that the card is in its highly doubtful that some minor discrepancies knock the card down to the grade given- Even if there is a minor surface issue that can actually cause the rest of the card to be that low of a grade? Trying to find better examples of this card on the market or around and I'm going to be honest I don't see one ...even in the "9" grade - For me as maybe for many of you all I like to "see" a virtually perfect card upon looking at it - Taking a look at the front of the card AND the back of the card I just don't see where it could be dropped to a "6" - Some of the 8's and 9's Ive put up against this card looking just on the front alone aren't even comparable - Not sure I would want a dinged corner white chipping or an off centered die cut 8 or 9 when I can virtually look at mine from the front and see a MINT if not 10 card pulled out of a hobby pack - Again having pulled plenty of cards from the SP packs which I'm really not sure out of all the ones I have pulled saw a rookie die cut or majority of the "overall sp cards" as pristine as this one and its sad it was graded a "6" - Still have some concern regarding the POP report during my grading which Ill get into later on hopefully to better understand whats being entered or unentered after already being entered and things of this nature - Do appreciate the responses thus far and look forward to receiving the card pictured above back

Welcome back, Dr Perfecto.

LarkinCollector

Think I would have subbed this one expecting a 5?

Except for the front surface wrinkle, it has the eye appeal of a 10, on a good day.

Sterlin18

Larkin very nice card also autographed how did you know it had a surface wrinkle - Assume after getting it back and looking it over closer?



Just received my arod die cut back and I do see the ever so small wrinkle in the edges of the "net" upon return...sad that it can knocked off 4 points on a beautiful card however my other "6" regular arod rookie foil had a little bigger wrinkle which it received the same grade - Totally sucks however what can you do - At first it appeared blended in with the netting so didn't even notice it till now



The wrinkle is located on the first photo ABOVE in this topic of the card and this photo BELOW in the link with the black dot indicates where the wrinkle is on the card ABOVE in this topic



PSA 6 A. Rodriguez DieCut Foil Rookie



Not a bad submission all things considering

LarkinCollector

Originally posted by: Sterlin18
Larkin how did you know it had a surface wrinkle - Assume after getting it back and looking it over closer?

Yes. I'm surprised you're getting 6s with wrinkles on the front, looks like I have some bump candidates if that's the new standard

MrHockey

Kyle, it's because it's considered an edge issue. 6 is pretty standard there. Same as if someone picked up a vintage card too hard on the edges and dug a fingernail in, leaving an indent. (I think)