Resubmitting AU58 for AU58+ grades

Bochiman

Just wondering about the thoughts of those who have done it....



Not looking for crossovers or raw coin submissions that resulted in AU58+ but rather, the thoughts of those that had PCGS AU58 coins and resubmitted trying for AU58+?



Did you do it for registry points?

Did you do it for potential resale value?

Did majority of your coins make it?

Did majority NOT make it?

WHEN did you do this (recently? awhile ago?)

Overall thoughts on your experience doing this?



I can see the "value" for those that MUST have a top-pop and, in circ grades, it certainly is.

I can also see the "value" for those doing the Everyman registry sets. Differentiator and can't be "beat".



Not sure I can see the overall value for some folks, perhaps myself included, in the submission cost (unless, maybe, one has an annual submission burning a hole in one's pocket and no other coins to submit).



Also, one would want to specify ONLY AU58+ if any upgrade, if one is doing the everyman set, as one wouldn't want to lose the AU58 status otherwise, right? And, it could cost some old holders.....





So, thoughts?

lkeigwin

While I have an everyman registry set of capped bust half dollars...somewhere in the top 3 or 5...and I have 50 or more other AU58's, some of which might upgrade and improve my standing, I haven't used PCGS's new upgrade policy which allows you to set 58+ as the maximum for regrades or reconsiderations.



Something feels wrong.



Some, no doubt, deserve a higher grade, probably MS. Holding them back to 58+ for the sake of registry standing feels illegitimate. IMO they should be moved to their correct grade.



I might come around. I'm not super competitive about the whole thing. But I do enjoy a little banter with the leaders. Friends of mine. And there is no question that a 58+, at least in today's market, enjoys a huge benefit.



So I am open-minded but reluctant to jump in right now.

Lance.

lordmarcovan

Resubmitting AU58 for AU58+ grades

My first reaction was... why?



Then... aha. The Registry. It's been a while since I've done any Registry set collecting, so I guess I've fallen out of that thought pattern.



Then again, I've never been fond of resubmitting coins.

jdimmick

I have one coin that most likely would get the plus, at least that's what several have said. I am not a registry participant, so I just leave it where its at.

its a 21-s half in pc 58 cac.

Now, if I were to ever sell it, the 58+ would be financially beneficial to try it before I sell it.

I also have an 1822 Dime in pc58, but it was upgraded from a 55 several years ago, so I feel its correct, and would not get the +

oih82w8

Because it is "+" better. Kinda reminds me of the "Spinal Tap" skit with the amplifiers going up to 11, which is one louder.

These go to 11

amwldcoin

I have done this with my Barber Half's. My 1st 2 submissions I received around 6 out of 40 coins each submission. The 2nd submission I sent several coins in a 2nd time from the 1st submission and 3 of them +'d the 2nd time in. I have yet to figure out what PCGS is looking for in a + grade. Quite a few of my coins I feel they would not + because they are more likely than not Mint State.



Bust Half's like Barber Half's are well worth trying for + grades. Presently you can get insane money for 58+'s!

AMRC

Sometimes you have to separate the Logic from the emotion in collecting. Not all decisions are logical, but that makes it no less interesting and fun.

DIMEMAN

Doesn't make much sense to me. But I don't like the whole "+" thing...especially in the Unc, grades. It's all about the almighty grade points and the Registry. If you say you can tell the difference between a 65....65+.....and a 66......you are fooling yourself.

The fact that the same coin can come back with 4 or 5 different grades just proves this over and over.

I like the Registry very much, but not for the same reason as the people who keep resubmitting trying for higher and higher points.

JMHO

DeepCoin

My guess is that people submitting 58s are looking for a 63, not a + for the 58. Just MHO. The registry point chasing thing is a bit nuts, but some people enjoy and get into it. I respect their choice, but decline the opportunity to play.

dbldie55

When people pay MS65 money for an AU58+, it would seem to be worth it to try and make a few.

Lakesammman

I've been slowly selling non-core coins including this one I bought on speculation, AU58, now PCGS AU58+, thinking it would be worth more than a 62 or 63.



It's all in fun.

Bochiman

Bringing to the top to see if there are other comments/opinions.



I've appreciated them all so far (and, thanks for killing my thread, Lakesalmon )

roadrunner

Originally posted by: DIMEMAN

Doesn't make much sense to me. But I don't like the whole "+" thing...especially in the Unc, grades. It's all about the almighty grade points and the Registry. If you say you can tell the difference between a 65....65+.....and a 66......you are fooling yourself.



The fact that the same coin can come back with 4 or 5 different grades just proves this over and over.



I like the Registry very much, but not for the same reason as the people who keep resubmitting trying for higher and higher points.



JMHO

For the coins I often bought it's important that me (or the dealer working for me)...and ideally both of us can verify the difference from 65 low end, 65 average, 65 high end, and 66 low end, 66 average for a $1,000 to $5,000 coin.



Lets say it's a seated quarter where MS65 is $1200, MS66 is $2500. That means a low end 65 is $800-$1000. A real solid one is $1400-$1500. A high 65 can be $1500-$2000. Low end 66 is $2000-$2200. You'd better be able to tell the difference because top dealers and top graders can. There certainly isn't a price vacuum from $1201-$2499. Price has always been continuous, despite step levels of TPG grades. I can tell the difference. I'm not fooling myself. I bought like that in the 1988-1990 period with raw coins. Any seasoned grader or collector should be able to tell low end, ave-solid, high end in any grade from Fine to MS67 for classic coins in their specialty. If you can't, at least ensure the dealer you're buying from can.



A coin that comes back different grades 4-5 times, isn't an issue with my grading....it's the TPG. I already know what that choice/gem unc seated coin should grade with 60-65% accuracy. And if we had the same graders, with exceptional skill, grading without time limit, we'd get the grade right 80-90% of the time (instead of the 50-70% we currently have). And it would stay there because the SAME 3-4 guys would be grading the same coins all the time, on every resubmission. But, it doesn't work that way in real life. Mix up the graders, give them 5-20 seconds, and you get lots of variability.

TomB

I don't follow the 58/58+ price structure in this series, but from a liquidity standpoint I would imagine an AU58 OGH would trump a new AU58+ for speed of sale and perhaps even price.

DIMEMAN

Originally posted by: roadrunner

Originally posted by: DIMEMAN
Doesn't make much sense to me. But I don't like the whole "+" thing...especially in the Unc, grades. It's all about the almighty grade points and the Registry. If you say you can tell the difference between a 65....65+.....and a 66......you are fooling yourself.

The fact that the same coin can come back with 4 or 5 different grades just proves this over and over.

I like the Registry very much, but not for the same reason as the people who keep resubmitting trying for higher and higher points.

JMHO

For the coins I often bought it's important that me (or the dealer working for me)...and ideally both of us can verify the difference from 65 low end, 65 average, 65 high end, and 66 low end, 66 average for a $1,000 to $5,000 coin.

Lets say it's a seated quarter where MS65 is $1200, MS66 is $2500. That means a low end 65 is $800-$1000. A real solid one is $1400-$1500. A high 65 can be $1500-$2000. Low end 66 is $2000-$2200. You'd better be able to tell the difference because top dealers and top graders can. There certainly isn't a price vacuum from $1201-$2499. Price has always been continuous, despite step levels of TPG grades. I can tell the difference. I'm not fooling myself. I bought like that in the 1988-1990 period with raw coins. Any seasoned grader or collector should be able to tell low end, ave-solid, high end in any grade from Fine to MS67 for classic coins in their specialty. If you can't, at least ensure the dealer you're buying from can.

A coin that comes back different grades 4-5 times, isn't an issue with my grading....it's the TPG. I already know what that choice/gem unc seated coin should grade with 60-65% accuracy. And if we had the same graders, with exceptional skill, grading without time limit, we'd get the grade right 80-90% of the time (instead of the 50-70% we currently have). And it would stay there because the SAME 3-4 guys would be grading the same coins all the time, on every resubmission. But, it doesn't work that way in real life. Mix up the graders, give them 5-20 seconds, and you get lots of variability.

I respect you and your expertise in Seated coinage, but I don't call 60-65% accuracy very accurate.

Lakesammman

I don't follow the 58/58+ price structure in this series, but from a liquidity standpoint I would imagine an AU58 OGH would trump a new AU58+ for speed of sale and perhaps even price.



Oh great....now you tell me.

amwldcoin

Originally posted by: TomB

I don't follow the 58/58+ price structure in this series, but from a liquidity standpoint I would imagine an AU58 OGH would trump a new AU58+ for speed of sale and perhaps even price.

I disagree! My 1909-O Barber Half was in an OGH and I would take it in a new + grade holder any day of the week and would pay at least double what I would've paid without the +. Of course I have a little bias but as long as no one else makes another in + I believe it will bring that kind of premium!

PaleElf

Sent in 3 AU58 CBHs for resubmission on 9/12/16. Grades posted today (9/22/16). 2 out of the 3 upgraded to AU58+.

Sunshine Rare Coins

Originally posted by: PaleElf

Sent in 3 AU58 CBHs for resubmission on 9/12/16. Grades posted today (9/22/16). 2 out of the 3 upgraded to AU58+.

Any pictures?

roadrunner

Originally posted by: DIMEMAN



I respect you and your expertise in Seated coinage, but I don't call 60-65% accuracy very accurate.

Considering you're grading these coins raw, with no holder for help, and no one else looking over your shoulder.....60-65% is about the top end for most collectors. We're talking gem mint seated coinage....so trying to discern a raw MS66+ from say a MS67 or a 64+ from a 65...with 65% accuracy. If you score 1 out of 3 times, and break even on the other 2 coins, that's doing great imo.



And that 65% accuracy also applies to determining if coins in holders are low end, high end, or ok for the grade.



World class, TPG level is around the 75% range. I used to watch dealers compete for choice/gem raw seated material at auction all the time. And seeing what grades they got was part of the tuition. 2/3 or 4/5 was about the best anyone could do. This is not about buying a coin and flipping it for 10%. If you don't think 65% is a good number, crack out all your choice/gem type coins and resubmit them raw. Tell us how the TPG does with repeatability.

JeffMTampa

I sent in my 11 best 58 Barber Halves in, a few were Proof Like with minor marks breaking the luster. I went 0 for 11; I did it for Registry Points. Now I consider it a waste of $$. I've come back to earth; appreciate the coin, not the label.

PaleElf

Originally posted by: UltraHighRelief

Originally posted by: PaleElf

Sent in 3 AU58 CBHs for resubmission on 9/12/16. Grades posted today (9/22/16). 2 out of the 3 upgraded to AU58+.

Any pictures?

58+







This one bumped up a full grade in another order.