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'79 OPC Gretzky: The Blue Print Lines

Howdy guys,

This topic has been coming up recently around the collecting community so I wanted to open it up to the experts here.

I'd like to gather more information on the long-standing belief the blue print lines on the back of Gretzky rookie is the "first print run". The more I've thought about it, the more I feel challenged with the long-standing belief. I cannot find any evidence that would prove that the print lines occurred at the beginning, the middle, or the end of the print run. And also the belief that the blue print lines are more rare.

So here's what we know:
OPC licensed their brand to Topps in the late 70s to produce hockey and baseball cards (maybe other products too). Topps produced these cards with inferior equipment in Canada. This resulted in rough edges and shotty centering. The 1979 Hockey cards were produced after the 1978 cards.
The blue print lines run vertically down the entire column that contains the Gretzky card. Here's some pics of an uncut sheet and the print lines. You can find every card in Gretzky's column on comc.com with the blue print lines.

image
image

Thoughts:
I'm interested in hearing opinions from those very familiar with the card printing process. It seems to me that the blue print lines would be the result of a scratch in the roller. Some people have mentioned it was an issue with the plates, but I doubt that plates would be changed during the print run, thus removing the print lines. The roller makes sense because that is something that could be replaced or maybe the scratches occurred at some point during the print run and resulted in the print lines with cards produced at the end of the print run.

I think it's reasonable to assume that only 1 set of plates would have ever been produced for a set in the 70's. But the rollers were likely used before the 1979 OPC set and eventually wear out and need to be changed.


Rarity:
As for the print lines variation being more or less rare than the non-print lines, I cannot make any determination one way or the other. I've been watching OPC Gretzky auctions for a while and each version seems to show up at about the same rate.

My theory is that back in the 80s when the card became insanely popular, a rumor started that the print lines were the first print run. Everyone knows that "first edition" of anything holds a premium. Since dealers/collectors were able to get more for the card, the rumor turned into belief.

One other tidbit of information: this might be meaningless, but I've found 3 uncut 1979 OPC sheets online that show pics of the back of the card. All 3 have the blue print lines. Does it make sense that uncut sheets would exist from the beginning or the end of the print run? I would think that any early print run sheets would have went directly into the packed product and the uncut sheets we're seeing pop up are leftovers from the end of the print run. Maybe this is a stretch though.

Any one else have opinions or evidence to throw into the wild fire?

Comments

  • LOTSOSLOTSOS Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow. Great topic. I can't wait to see if anyone can chime in. While I have absolutely no evidence to submit to help clarify I would agree with your hypothesis about the sheets being made at the end of the run as opposed to the middle or beginning.



    Only reason I could lean the other way was because I worked in a pharmaceutical manufacturing plant during college. They used to pull samples at various times through out the run as a QC measure. Once pulled the samples were never reintroduced back into the line. Apples and oranges I know but just my 2 cents.

    Kevin

  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    This is a great topic for discussion Davis!



    There is no definitive proof (that I know of) that the lines are really from the first printing. I refer to them as "first print" because that's what the consensus is.



    Some see the lines as a defect. What a way for dealers to move these defects and boost sales! Certainly makes sense that this is something contrived.



    But - the strongest evidence we have is that "first print" cards generally have the sharpest edges.



    Scribner's printed 20,870 copies of the first printing of The Great Gatsby vs 3,000 in the second printing, but the first printing is about $2,000 to $5,000 vs $600 to $800 for the second. People want the first of everything.







  • DavisDavis Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: MULLINS5

    But - the strongest evidence we have is that "first print" cards generally have the sharpest edges.



    Hey Buddy! Hope all is well!

    On your comment above, it brings 2 questions to mind...
    1) Do cards with the blue lines actually usually have sharper edges?
    2) If so, your comment assumes that cutting blades were replaced/sharpened at the beginning of the print run and not during the print run. Since OPC was making hockey and baseball cards throughout the year, I would think that the machinery was used until it wore out (it just makes business sense). We have no way of knowing if the blades wore out at the end of the 1978 opc baseball run or somewhere in the middle of the 1979 opc hockey run.

    Thoughts? image
  • LOTSOSLOTSOS Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know I don't know squat about squat after only a few posts here. This one could be like a masters class on card production. Please keep spit'ballin guys.



    Thanks,

    Kevin

    Kevin

  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Davis

    Originally posted by: MULLINS5



    But - the strongest evidence we have is that "first print" cards generally have the sharpest edges.







    Hey Buddy! Hope all is well!



    On your comment above, it brings 2 questions to mind...

    1) Do cards with the blue lines actually usually have sharper edges?

    2) If so, your comment assumes that cutting blades were replaced/sharpened at the beginning of the print run and not during the print run. Since OPC was making hockey and baseball cards throughout the year, I would think that the machinery was used until it wore out (it just makes business sense). We have no way of knowing if the blades wore out at the end of the 1978 opc baseball run or somewhere in the middle of the 1979 opc hockey run.



    Thoughts? image




    Things are great here, hope you're doing well!



    1) From my experience, yes. Are there "first print" with rough edges? Yeah. But I don't ever recall seeing a card with sharp edges without the blue lines. I'll try to dig up some examples from the 79s I have here.



    2) They used wires instead of blades and stacked the sheets when cutting. I think they stacked about 100 sheets at a time which is why there are so many of-centered and miscut cards. edit to add: Apparently, the wires lasted for most, if not all, of the entire print run.







  • sushihotwingssushihotwings Posts: 452 ✭✭✭
    One thing also leaning towards blue print lines being earlier production is O pee Chee thought print lines were a defect or unsightly and they corrected for the remainder of print run(only my speculation). Makes sense to me. Regardless, it seems accepted blue print lines are earlier print run and somewhat more rare. I have owned quite a few high end examples and the print lines were not as common in my sample size. If all things considered were exactly equal I would take the blue print line card every time. How much premium if any depends on the collector.
    On the hunt high grade Star Basketball.
  • Great topic and interesting someone would pay more for a card with print lines. I searched for a nice example for this card for a very long time. I picked up a bvg 8.5 last year that in my opinion looks better than the psa 10 I've seen. Mainly because mine is a 9.5 edges and I think that's the toughest part of this card.

    Anyway back to the lines, what does he grading companies say about it? For example does BGS give a low surface grade and/or does PSA give a marked qualifier or something to the cards with the lines in the back?
  • sushihotwingssushihotwings Posts: 452 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: JJCTHE1

    Great topic and interesting someone would pay more for a card with print lines. I searched for a nice example for this card for a very long time. I picked up a bvg 8.5 last year that in my opinion looks better than the psa 10 I've seen. Mainly because mine is a 9.5 edges and I think that's the toughest part of this card.



    Anyway back to the lines, what does he grading companies say about it? For example does BGS give a low surface grade and/or does PSA give a marked qualifier or something to the cards with the lines in the back?




    PSA does not acknowledge the print lines for better or for worse. Not sure about Beckett
    On the hunt high grade Star Basketball.
  • DavisDavis Posts: 705 ✭✭

    Things are great here, hope you're doing well!

    1) From my experience, yes. Are there "first print" with rough edges? Yeah. But I don't ever recall seeing a card with sharp edges without the blue lines. I'll try to dig up some examples from the 79s I have here.

    2) They used wires instead of blades and stacked the sheets when cutting. I think they stacked about 100 sheets at a time which is why there are so many of-centered and miscut cards. edit to add: Apparently, the wires lasted for most, if not all, of the entire print run.


    Good discussion....

    On question #1, I'd wager we can find many examples of blue-lines with and without rough edges and vice versa on the non-blue lines. Here's a few I quickly found on the bay with sharp edges that do not have blue lines:
    Sharp Edges - No Blue Lines
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...a0c:g:m~wAAOSw9NdXr76H
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...ac0:g:Kd0AAOSwHoFXvzYD
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...962:g:M7EAAOSw-itXrPeL
    Sharp Edges - Blue Lines:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...3e0:g:0lEAAOSwMtxXvPRX
    Rough Edges - Blue Lines:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...cd1:g:VgUAAOSwdzVXvzd1
    Rough Edges - No Blue Lines:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-W...170:g:yXkAAOSwZVlXvv4z

    2) that's a great point. I didn't know that.
  • DavisDavis Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: JJCTHE1
    Great topic and interesting someone would pay more for a card with print lines. I searched for a nice example for this card for a very long time. I picked up a bvg 8.5 last year that in my opinion looks better than the psa 10 I've seen. Mainly because mine is a 9.5 edges and I think that's the toughest part of this card.

    Anyway back to the lines, what does he grading companies say about it? For example does BGS give a low surface grade and/or does PSA give a marked qualifier or something to the cards with the lines in the back?


    The grading companies do not make any distinction or discount a grade due to the print lines.

    Also, as for the rough-cut vs. non rough-cut cards, that's mostly a buyer preference. While you may prefer the smoother edges, others may prefer the rough edges. Smoother edges, especially in a non-PSA holder, have a higher risk of being sheet cut and some collectors do not want sheet cut cards. Grading companies do not discount the rough-cut feature on this card as that was the way they were manufactured. Hypothetically, you have an PSA 10 with a rough cut.
  • Thanks for the replies guys. I pulled mine out tonight. No print lines. I'm surprised the grading companies don't account for the lines in the grade, they definitely should. Also I've read so much about the edges of these OPCs and its accepted to have frayed edges which is so odd to me but in the end I understand just wish it was the other way around! Hahah
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Davis



    Things are great here, hope you're doing well!



    1) From my experience, yes. Are there "first print" with rough edges? Yeah. But I don't ever recall seeing a card with sharp edges without the blue lines. I'll try to dig up some examples from the 79s I have here.



    2) They used wires instead of blades and stacked the sheets when cutting. I think they stacked about 100 sheets at a time which is why there are so many of-centered and miscut cards. edit to add: Apparently, the wires lasted for most, if not all, of the entire print run.





    Good discussion....



    On question #1, I'd wager we can find many examples of blue-lines with and without rough edges and vice versa on the non-blue lines. Here's a few I quickly found on the bay with sharp edges that do not have blue lines:

    Sharp Edges - No Blue Lines

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...a0c:g:m~wAAOSw9NdXr76H

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...ac0:g:Kd0AAOSwHoFXvzYD

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...962:g:M7EAAOSw-itXrPeL

    Sharp Edges - Blue Lines:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...3e0:g:0lEAAOSwMtxXvPRX

    Rough Edges - Blue Lines:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-8...cd1:g:VgUAAOSwdzVXvzd1

    Rough Edges - No Blue Lines:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-W...170:g:yXkAAOSwZVlXvv4z



    2) that's a great point. I didn't know that.




    I'm talking sheet-cut-like sharp edges, though the ones you shared are quite sharp!



    I don't think we will ever have definitive proof that the blue lines are from the first printing. The more I think of it, I think I side that they are not first prints.







  • DavisDavis Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Mullins, I think you and I are on the same page. The more I learn about the printing process back on 1979, the more I tend to think the blue lines showed up mid to late print run. But we really have no way of truly knowing.
  • FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the card characteristics that are usually associated with the blue lines. Usually they have better registration and a systematic rough cut that allows for me to know I'm not getting a card that has been doctored. I don't really care if they are the first run or the last. I associate the blue lines with authenticity and clues to ensure authenticity.

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image



    Notice that all these examples have a rough left edge and a cleaner right edge. There is also a little indentation on the right edge that seems to appear on most of these cards from this print run.

    The fish eye that sometimes appears on Gretzky's right shoulder is also associated with the blue skate lines, and usually comes with clear registration.

    The cool thing about these cards is that upon closer inspection there are all these little quirks that were never really thought about at the time but now are so important to us.

    -Nathanael
  • Still amazes me that the rough edge doesn't weigh as heavily if at all for the final grade for this card. To me, it just kills the eye appeal. That first one you list really does not look like an 8 to me.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: JJCTHE1

    Still amazes me that the rough edge doesn't weigh as heavily if at all for the final grade for this card. To me, it just kills the eye appeal. That first one you list really does not look like an 8 to me.






    The rough edge is how the card was issued. It is proof that you're not dealing with a sheet-cut card, like the one you own.





  • PMKAYPMKAY Posts: 1,372 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: JJCTHE1
    Still amazes me that the rough edge doesn't weigh as heavily if at all for the final grade for this card. To me, it just kills the eye appeal. That first one you list really does not look like an 8 to me.


    You obviously did not grow up in Canada.

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