1963 TOPPS PETE ROSE ROOKIE DRASTIC PRICE SHIFTS

eliteco3

Hello, I was researching the classic 1963 Topps Pete Rose RC card and noticed in may-june they were selling aroudn 13,000-17,000. They are now selling for 7,000-8,500. Does anyone know what caused this dramatic price shift? Were people shilling the auctions a couple months ago? Did people believe he was going to get into the hall? I guess it could just be more hit the market at once dropping the price.

1954

yes

craig44

I think there were 10-30 special people buying them all up.

eliteco3

YES AS IN THEY WERE SHILLED OR YES TO WHAT QUESTION.

shagrotn77

There was (and still is) major market manipulation going on.

travis t

The problem with generalizing is that it stirs up an unnecessary backlash that may not necessarily be attributable to shilling accusations. In certain cases the inflated prices of cards within a particular grade will fluctuate dramatically depending on the overall aspects of its presentation. It is not out of the ordinary to expect wild swings in value if the comparable features of an investment grade card are not the same. A gorgeous dead centered example in a PSA 8, for instance, is going to command far more interest and ultimate value than a similarly graded example which is off centered or has even a slightly damaged corner. The higher value is the exception, not the rule. When the marketplace does not see the highest quality example within the grade the market does not pay. I personally feel more comfortable paying the higher amount for the better example. I think it will pay exponentially better dividends in the long term. I'm positive there are others not only here in this forum, but in the buying mainstream as well, who don't give a cat's hindquarters what we think as long as they are content with their card or other collectible.



This applies to any or all, not just a Rose rookie card. Your opinion about multiple examples hitting the marketplace is definitely a contributing factor to price shifting. When people notice a sudden climb in the value of their investment, they think much more seriously about liquidation. And then the clutter becomes a landslide.

gregmo32

All true, but yes, people were undoubtedly manipulating the market.

It is fair to speculate and argue about what their exact motivations were, but I don't think a reasonable person with a knowledge of the hobby and its intricacies, can believe that this was not being directly influenced by a small minority of individuals.

olb31

I'm thinking that it had something to do with National show. Right before then, the shilling slowed down. Having said that, If someone had a centered 8, it may have drawn significantly more interest than a slightly off-centered one.

KendallCat

nice ones sell for a premium where weak ones will not. Others stuff impacted the prices on the high side as well. A lot of nice cards get sold in private for higher prices for people who don't want to risk a bidding war or really want a card.

KC

cardcountry

I sold 2 very nice, well centered Psa 8's at the national for much higher than the recent sales (over 2x). The market for high end for the grade is solid.

eliteco3

How do you determine what is high end for a particular grade? Just based off centering or corners basically.

cardcountry

Those are the biggest factors, but also consider things like absence of pd (particularly on cards that notoriously have it like the 55 Koufax). Basically 8's that look more like 9's instead of more like 7's

Jeff

travis t

Color, gloss & registration. Also the appearance of a slight curl of a card in holder tells me it is crisp and handled more delicately.

BeRoyalKC

The real reason is the emergence of the true hit king Ichiro. Who remembers the guy with the second most hits? ??

cardbender

Some of the latest Rose RC sales in PSA 8's have been for some weak looking examples too.

Makes sense, the market is strong for high-end for the grade 8's at $12-15K.
People dish off their weak looking sisters for 60-75% of the high-end examples and they're still making a killing.
Happens to many key cards all the time.

Just check out VCP and take a looks at some of those recent Rose 8's that have sold.
Some real sliders.

psychump

Not to mention the collectors that panicked and bought one in case they increased even more in price. I know of one personally. Not me though. I bought a PSA 7MC before I knew any better then bought a straight 7 and sold the MC at a profit. I dislike the card as well. Floating heads suck and I wish there were all stars in this set!

SpinFadeSplash23

Yes, we have stopped buying the Pete Rose RC.

travis t

One byproduct of this buying frenzy has been the flushing out of more comparable examples in both the graded and raw material. There are folks out there who keep a casual eye on such things and wait for an opportunity to sell into an active marketplace. In recent months many nice high profile cards have been offered at auction. The usual risks come alongside. I've had success acquiring cards which had eluded me in the past, at prices I've felt very content to pay. I've also sent some back, but that's goes with the territory.



Whomever is busy pursuing this stuff, keep it up, and let's see more quality rise to the surface.

Dpeck100

Aaron PSA 9


This to me looks like an example of a card that could sell for a premium for the grade. What a great looking card!

mb2005

PSA 9 1954 Aaron

Dpeck100

Originally posted by: mb2005
PSA 9 1954 Aaron

Thanks. Second time I have tried linking a card from Heritage and it didn't work for me.

addicted2ebay

The rose 10 is at almost 600k.... It's going to be fun this weekend to see where they end up.

gregmo32

Dpeck100,

I think it would be fair to say that for a card of the magnitude and scarcity of the PSA 9 1954 Topps Hank Aaron, that a "premium for the grade" would be very difficult to establish. I agree that it looks to be a "high end" 9, but with how infrequently these cards are even offered up for sale, the impact of other market conditions, timing, and general supply and demand have significantly more to do with the final price than do the usual factors like the card's relative condition when compared to other examples of the same grade.

Two copies have sold publicly this year, for around $190K and $220K, give or take.

Before that, the most recent public sale was in 2014, at $62K.

Prior to that, in 2013, at $36K.

And before that, in 2010, at $22K.

The card itself actually being for sale and available seems to be the primary motivator in the sales price, because potential buyers recognize that if they do not get this one, they will be more than likely waiting a long time to spend a lot more.

Dpeck100

I don't disagree that this will achieve a high price because of scarcity. That said this appears to be a nicer card than I recall the other two examples being and the PSA 8's have softened some and this is already setting a record price at 334k. I believe the last sale was closer to 290k if my memory serves me.

Either way it is a really nice looking card and I don't see how anyone could look at this copy and say they don't feel it is worthy of the mint grade. I guess my point was that because of that it will bring whatever a top looking copy in a PSA 9 can possibly hope too.

gregmo32

I agree with the strength of the condition on this particular PSA 9.

I suppose it is possible that because of its "high end" status within the parameters of the MINT 9 grade that it might bring a higher amount than a more mid-level MINT 9, but I would argue that because of the rarity of any PSA 9 actually coming to a public auction, that the difference in those two theoretical prices is not remotely quantifiable. While that may always be true to an extent, a value could be much more easily ascertained for a more common high end card, such as a
1986 Fleer Michael Jordan PSA 9.