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1758 Pingo medal

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A 1758 Louisbourg Taken medal by Pingo. During the French and Indian War, Fortress Louisbourg was an important strategic French military base in the North Atlantic. In 1758 the British successfully captured the fort after a previous failed attempt by William Pitt. The fall of Fortress Louisbourg effectively meant an open door for the British to conquer Quebec, then Montreal and the fall, or conquest, of Canada by the British.

A beautiful and well executed design by Thomas Pingo, the engraver of the English Mint. This medal was awarded to the commanding officers and distinguished soldiers of the siege and capture of the fort. Silver. 43.8 mm, 579 gns.

Discuss.

US Civil War coinage
Historical Medals

Comments

  • HoledandCreativeHoledandCreative Posts: 2,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A beauty!
  • garrynotgarrynot Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    Very impressive and well executed Betts medal.
  • bronzematbronzemat Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thats neat, I like it!
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A stunning bit of colonial North American history.



    High on both the aesthetic and historical scales, which are my "big two" indices.



    (I would've commented sooner, but my poor connection had difficulty loading the images.)



    PS- I like the detail of the naked and seemingly wizened crone-like figure pointing to the fallen fleur-de-lis.



    Who is this no doubt allegorical figure? France in general?



    It's a bit early to be a humiliated Maryanne, isn't it? Didn't she come along a few decades later, in the French Revolution?

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  • jgennjgenn Posts: 735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I understand that this is a product of its time and influenced by strong nationalistic propaganda but it offends me to see the image of a prone, stripped woman used in this way. Today, Pingo would be labeled a misogynist.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: jgenn

    I understand that this is a product of its time and influenced by strong nationalistic propaganda but it offends me to see the image of a prone, stripped woman used in this way. Today, Pingo would be labeled a misogynist.




    A fair enough assessment, and more politically correct for sure, but like you say, this is a product of its time and of a propagandistic nature.



    When I said I "liked" that detail, of course, I meant I found it interesting, not that I'm keen on misogynistic representations.



    I really was wondering aloud at the allegorical significance of the figure, though I suppose the gist of it is easy enough to figure out.



    Just like a "Judaea Capta" Roman coin or other ancient designs, or Goetz medals for a more modern example, it is possible to find them interesting without necessarily subscribing to the same point of view as their creators.




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  • HandHHandH Posts: 438 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: lordmarcovan
    A stunning bit of colonial North American history.

    High on both the aesthetic and historical scales, which are my "big two" indices.

    (I would've commented sooner, but my poor connection had difficulty loading the images.)

    PS- I like the detail of the naked and seemingly wizened crone-like figure pointing to the fallen fleur-de-lis.

    Who is this no doubt allegorical figure? France in general?

    It's a bit early to be a humiliated Maryanne, isn't it? Didn't she come along a few decades later, in the French Revolution?


    Thank you lordmarcovan. I'm not a huge fan of the French and Indian war medals although I'm a history buff that finds that era fascinating. I find the Pingo medals most attractive to me. A nice Canada Subdued would be a nice collection representing the French and Indian War. So I agree with with you on the aesthetic and historical value of this medal.

    The allegorical figure is certainly France the country. France is referred historically in the feminine. As is the United States, a la lady Liberty. THe allergory is French power in the new world as stripped and crushed by the world power of Britain. Hence a grenadier on the left and sailor on right. The reverse, in this discussion, speaks for itself.

    While Pingo's work in this medal may be considered misogynistic in 2016 ( particularly in light of the presidential election ) it was, in 1758, an artistic allegorical representation of the main event of the new world. To attempt to label 250 year old art, or 3000 year old art ( Judaea Capta ) misogynist, is absurd. Had Pingo lived in 1945 he might have engraved a similar medal with similar British figures but a naked German soldier underneath the weight of the world, stripped and crushed of his power, as the German lands are historically known in the masculine. This analogy could retrace every war and every country in the history of time since coinage began.

    I certainly do not mean to fail to validate jgenn's comments and views, but viewing historical art, and judging that art's meaning, only through the lens of 2016 modernity is a failure to validate the artist in historical times and miss the important lessons and gifts it offers us.

    US Civil War coinage
    Historical Medals

  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭
    A fair enough assessment, and more politically correct for sure, but like you say, this is a product of its time and of a propagandistic nature.

    +1



    Great medal indeed and nice reflection of the events and time. Wasn't aware of the medal so glad to learn about it.



    It is a too often made mistake to try and apply our current biases/standards in judging/assessing the past and artifacts of the past. It'd be very informative if we could fast forward 250 years and see what people think of the today's acceptable PC standards. They might think we were the most wonderfulest people ever to be so enlightened...but probably not and the whole experience would more likely be very humbling.



    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: HandH



    Thank you lordmarcovan. I'm not a huge fan of the French and Indian war medals although I'm a history buff that finds that era fascinating. I find the Pingo medals most attractive to me. A nice Canada Subdued would be a nice collection representing the French and Indian War. So I agree with with you on the aesthetic and historical value of this medal.



    The allegorical figure is certainly France the country. France is referred historically in the feminine. As is the United States, a la lady Liberty. THe allergory is French power in the new world as stripped and crushed by the world power of Britain. Hence a grenadier on the left and sailor on right. The reverse, in this discussion, speaks for itself.



    While Pingo's work in this medal may be considered misogynistic in 2016 ( particularly in light of the presidential election ) it was, in 1758, an artistic allegorical representation of the main event of the new world. To attempt to label 250 year old art, or 3000 year old art ( Judaea Capta ) misogynist, is absurd. Had Pingo lived in 1945 he might have engraved a similar medal with similar British figures but a naked German soldier underneath the weight of the world, stripped and crushed of his power, as the German lands are historically known in the masculine. This analogy could retrace every war and every country in the history of time since coinage began.



    I certainly do not mean to fail to validate jgenn's comments and views, but viewing historical art, and judging that art's meaning, only through the lens of 2016 modernity is a failure to validate the artist in historical times and miss the important lessons and gifts it offers us.






    Hey, you said "discuss", and we're doing exactly that. image



    I do see where jgenn is coming from, but for me personally, the design doesn't bother me at all, in its proper historical/propagandistic context.



    I tend to agree with the OP: one should not judge the art of the past with a 21st century bias.



    Well... OK, you can, and that's your prerogative if you do, but I think that takes a rather narrow view, is all.


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  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    Wonderful piece in all categories - historical context, design, and eye appeal. It is the first time I have laid eyes on this particular piece. If you keep posting things like this, i am going to have to seriously re-evaluate my collecting focus.



  • HandHHandH Posts: 438 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: worldcoinguy
    Wonderful piece in all categories - historical context, design, and eye appeal. It is the first time I have laid eyes on this particular piece. If you keep posting things like this, i am going to have to seriously re-evaluate my collecting focus.



    Now you're just egging me on. I hope to post another NEWP soon. I came from US Civil War coinage to IPMs, and added historical medals. There are some great medals from colonial Indian Peace Medals toRevolutionary War medals, to War of 1812 medals that are really well done, rare and not that expensive. Some are not so well executed and some are extremely expensive. But we can find good acquisitions in that mix.

    US Civil War coinage
    Historical Medals

  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    So one H stands for History. What's the other "H?" image



    In case anyone is wondering, since I don't see this posted yet ...



    The Latin motto above the globe means "together in war." The globe shows America and Canada, not America and England. While I understand the obvious reasons for this, I find it interesting. On one hand, it is the British who were victorious not the native inhabitants of Canada (although some of them may have fought alongside British soldiers). On the other hand, Canadian forces have indeed been at our side in war and conflict ever since. Even now, in the fight against ISIL, they are part of our coalition (as is the United Kingdom).



    I guess what I am trying to say is that when the battle took place, the public perception was likely "Britain and America together in war" and I seem to recall learning as such in my schooling. But in hindsight, Canada has been there for us many times.
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  • HandHHandH Posts: 438 ✭✭✭
    LochNESS, the following is based upon research by David Menchell in the MCA Advisory dated February 2005: You are semantically correct in that "PARITER IN BELLA" is translated as "together in war". Dr. Menchell translate this as " Equally brave in war". Either way, my research leads to the same conclusion. The reference is to the British army and naval forces taking Louisbourg together, not to America and Britain at war again. In support of this interpretation is the British grenadier on left and the British sailor on right. At that time, the British army and the British navy through admiral Boscawen were frequently at odds in their desire to dominate the headlines in conquering North America.

    The description of the reverse is also rather cool historically. The view of the attack on the city, from the inside of a battery shelling Louisbourg to right. The burning ship is a Fench Man-o-war, her name escapes me.

    Recall that when this medal was struck, 1758, the United States didn't exist nor did Canada. I don't believe George II really cared about public perception. I believe he conveyed through the Mint ( granted, ther is no proof this was a state sanctioned medal due to the lack of a sovereign portrait obverse ) what he wanted the perception to be.

    Really such great history that deserves further great questions, as LochNESS's, and study and publication.

    US Civil War coinage
    Historical Medals

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