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Help Identify this Political Token / Medal Design

GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭✭✭
I purchased a small group of dies and this one was included in the lot. I've not been able to find a medal or token that was struck with this die and I need some help. I am only presuming that this die produced a political medal / token. Does this look familiar to anyone?

If it helps, the die face is approximately 32mm in diameter and the edge of the die is stamped "SOP & SONS C".
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Comments

  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,467 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would put my money on Pistareen to be the first to report accurately on the origin of this die.



    Very similar to J.A. Bolen's 1866 Springfield Antiquarians medal (JAB-23), except central design is a more lean eagle facing opposite of struck pieces from OP's die, and no banner bearing E-P-U legend.



    image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had two thoughts, neither of which panned out. What were the other dies, maybe they can provide some context?
  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There were three other dies:

    Obverse: 1928 100th Meeting of the Detroit Coin Club, Abraham Lincoln
    Obverse: Small William Jennings Bryan medal
    Obverse: Depiction of Liberty? I believe it was done by George Soley and the die blank on which the design was engraved may have originated from the Philadelphia Mint. Maybe you know more about this one too... : )

    image
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,726 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice dies but I can't place them.

    Hopefully someone will will be able to identify it with a matching token or some other way.

    Might be interesting to see if identifying medals / tokens would work with some kind of photo matching search engine.
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: GoldenEgg
    There were three other dies:

    Obverse: 1928 100th Meeting of the Detroit Coin Club, Abraham Lincoln
    Obverse: Small William Jennings Bryan medal
    Obverse: Depiction of Liberty? I believe it was done by George Soley and the die blank on which the design was engraved may have originated from the Philadelphia Mint. Maybe you know more about this one too... : )

    image





    image
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IIRC, that Liberty Head die was used for a whole bunch of different tokens in the 1890s time frame. Kudos to CoinsAreFun for coming up with a concrete example faster than I could. :-)
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,467 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: coinsarefun





    image




    image



    Have one of these as well. These exist in several "denominations".



    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, the Liberty die was used on multiple different medals & tokens. I've owned a couple over the last year or so.

    As for the original die in question (eagle & shield), the design seems to be a relatively common one. I've even seen a similar design on a cheap 1970s city bicentennial medal and a few others. Thanks for pointing out that Bolen medal, coindeuce.

    This specific die appears to be of relatively early manufacture, I'm thinking late 1800s, maybe 1880s. It also appears to be of very high quality. That is partly why I thought that this piece would be identifiable.

    Thanks for the help everyone!
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In the "better late than never" category...

    The eagle-on-shield die that started this thread was used for DeWitt Al 1864-19a, pictured as 3-230C in Paul Cunningham's new (a year or so ago) book on Lincoln medals. Exact match; no question about it.

    Neither DeWitt nor Cunningham credit an engraver.

  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks, @jonathanb ! I figured someone would stumble on it, at some point. Didn't take too long. ;)

    Seems like a relatively difficult piece to come by, so thanks again for spotting it!

    Case closed.

  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Found another match to this die. It was attributed by NGC as Dewitt-BH-1888-14a. I haven't confirmed this attribution, though.

    Photos credited to Ine.inc on eBay. They sold this on 12/12/16 for $37.66. HERE

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,726 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2020 5:39AM

    @GoldenEgg

    I just ran across this token which sold for $12.46 back on September 19, 2020. Not sure who owns it but it looks like a token for your die!

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/GAY-NINETIES-UNLISTED-RULAU-LIBERTY-HEAD-0F-MORGAN-IRON-CROSS-CSI-CO-25MM-WM-/174402228247?

    GAY NINETIES UNLISTED RULAU LIBERTY HEAD 0F MORGAN IRON CROSS CSI CO 25MM WM !!

    GAY NINTIES 25MM WM LIBERTY HEAD OF MORGAM RIGHT LAUREL WREATH AROUND SAME AS RULAU WIL 5 PA HOLED FOR SUSPENSION IRON CROSS REVERSE 'C I S & CO ' IN CENTER UNLISTED IN RULAU ! I HAVE TRAVELED THE COUNTRY FOR 36 YEARS AND HAVE FOUND MERCHANT, SO CALLED $, CIVIL WAR PATRIOTS, STORE CARDS, DOG TAGS, SUTLERS, LOVE TOKENS,COUNTER STAMPS, CUTOUTS, ERRORS, TRADE, CENTENNIAL , CONDOR, WHITEHEAD & HOAG PROPRIETARY PIECES AND MUCH MORE MANY ONE OF A KIND AND RARITIES MAKE SURE TO FOLLOW MY AUCTIONS I WILL STIMULATE YOUR INTERESTS I HAVE FOUND ALL THESE GEMS IN MANY DIFFERENT AND UNUSUAL PLACES KEEP WATCHING AND AS ALWAYS THANKS FOR LOOKING ! ITEMS OVER $75 FINAL BIDS WILL REQUIRE INSURANCE! THESE ARE FROM MY COLLECTIONS OF 55 YEARS! BOOKMARK ME FOR FUTURE AUCTIONS! ASK ANY QUESTIONS! THANKS!! BOB

  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    @GoldenEgg

    I just ran across this token which sold for $12.46 back on September 19, 2020. Not sure who owns it but it looks like a token for your die!

    Thanks for posting it! I think I did see that one too, or possibly even another one within the last month or so! I have seen so many since first acquiring this die.

    If you watch for these types enough, you will see that many of the dies had been paired with multiple other dies, making for a slew of varieties.

    For example the one you posted:

    It has the same reverse as this one:

    Which has the same obverse as this one:

    That Washington obverse has an incuse “M” on the truncation of the bust, which I assume is George Morgan. It would not be his best work, but I think it might plausibly have been a “quick job”. Though I could be mistaken.

    Certainly they are fun medals to watch for! Thanks for sharing that one!

    I hope those photos fit okay on a desktop screen. I posted those from my phone...

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,726 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2020 9:09AM

    @GoldenEgg said:

    @Zoins said:
    @GoldenEgg

    I just ran across this token which sold for $12.46 back on September 19, 2020. Not sure who owns it but it looks like a token for your die!

    Thanks for posting it! I think I did see that one too, or possibly even another one within the last month or so! I have seen so many since first acquiring this die.

    If you watch for these types enough, you will see that many of the dies had been paired with multiple other dies, making for a slew of varieties.

    For example the one you posted:

    It has the same reverse as this one:


    Which has the same obverse as this one:


    That Washington obverse has an incuse “M” on the truncation of the bust, which I assume is George Morgan. It would not be his best work, but I think it might plausibly have been a “quick job”. Though I could be mistaken.

    Certainly they are fun medals to watch for! Thanks for sharing that one!

    I hope those photos fit okay on a desktop screen. I posted those from my phone...

    Great info! These are really challenging to find. It's great you've been able to pair the the dies for these tokens.

    Given that the Liberty Head die has been paired with many other dies, are the engravers / die sinkers for any of those dies known?

    Zoins-Flintlock Specimen

    I recently picked up this Taylor's Hotel token in NGC MS64 from Flintlock Coin & Bullion. This has has a very chocolate look in hand.

    Ken Bauer Specimen

    I also found another specimen formerly owned by Ken Bauer. This looks nice and flashy.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,726 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldenEgg said:
    Found another match to this die. It was attributed by NGC as Dewitt-BH-1888-14a. I haven't confirmed this attribution, though.

    Photos credited to Ine.inc on eBay. They sold this on 12/12/16 for $37.66. HERE

    I wanted to say this is a great find!

    Here's the slab photo and the WorthPoint link:

    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1888-benjamin-harrison-campaign-medal-1844715709

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,726 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2020 1:52AM

    Here's another one I ran across with Lady Liberty. The really interesting thing about this piece is that the 1834 Toronto die is commonly paired with a 1884 Toronto Semi-Centennial die below, which is signed "GW". Does anyone know who "GW" might refer to?

    More here: http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=8768.15

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,726 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2020 1:54AM

    And last but certainly not least (for now), is that Lady Liberty looks somewhat like So-Called Dollar HK-607.

    There are some obvious minor differences such as the hair and 5 vs. 6 pointed star, but has the same overall look.

    The reverse of this piece is signed "E A K" for Philadelphia medalist Edward A. Kretschman. I believe this was Edward Adolph Bernhard Kretschmann born in Germany in 1849 and moved to the US in 1856, settling in Philadelphia.

    https://www.so-calleddollars.com/Events/St_Louis_26th_Annual_Fair.html

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