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New PSA cases vs old cases
TheMick6
Posts: 582
At this years national one dealer I ran across told me that he gets all his cards put into new holders if possible and he thought that was the thing to do. Of course my response was that that didn't seem practical for your average collector and then the obvious discussion about "if PSA thought it was a 8 4 years ago" why wouldn't it be an 8 now? I realize PSA has gone thru changes but does it kinda annoy anyone else that the leading company in the hobby will take a card they have slabbed a few years before under there grading standards which have never really changed and tell you that they reserve the right to lower the grade if you try to rehder it? Yes you don't buy the holder you buy the card but at the national I heard the phrase "but it's not in a new holder" enough to just get under my skin. How hard is it maintain a consistent grading standard?
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At this years national one dealer I ran across told me that he gets all his cards put into new holders if possible and he thought that was the thing to do. Of course my response was that that didn't seem practical for your average collector and then the obvious discussion about "if PSA thought it was a 8 4 years ago" why wouldn't it be an 8 now? I realize PSA has gone thru changes but does it kinda annoy anyone else that the leading company in the hobby will take a card they have slabbed a few years before under there grading standards which have never really changed and tell you that they reserve the right to lower the grade if you try to rehder it? Yes you don't buy the holder you buy the card but at the national I heard the phrase "but it's not in a new holder" enough to just get under my skin. How hard is it maintain a consistent grading standard?
Judging from some of the cards in holders I have it's a lot more difficult to maintain a consistent grading standard than it should be apparently
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I'm a PSA fan, I know PSA in general takes care of collectors. I also know as a collecting community we probably are the reason the old case new case issue exists. Just seems that over the years 8's have become 7's.
I hear this a lot, that PSA had gotten stricter, but I disagree. I think it's a myth, just like the myth that 4SC gets more generous grades than you and I.
in which case PSA will reholder at lower grade and reimburse you for the difference.
I have always been confused with this statement. Is the reimbursement based on SMR value?
Example:
Say for the sake of discussion that a card has an SMR of $500 in PSA 8, $200 in PSA 7.
Say you bought a PSA 8 copy for $1k because the market was strong, and you send the card in to get reholdered. Say PSA found a defect that would downgrade it to a 7, so do they mail you the card in a PSA 7 holder and give you back $300?
buying O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball
It is impossible to maintain a consistent grading standard if different judges are judging. That fact has already been discussed here a million times. But, think about it terms of buying a shiny new pre-owned vehicle that's been detailed and looks sharp as opposed to one which has the same capabilities, but also has a few scratches, dings and bird poop on it. If the concept is similar - which would you choose?
I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
No question they are tougher now than they were in the past. Absolutely no question, especially the further back you go. As someone who has been in this hobby since long before Third Party Grading became the norm, I assure you this is true. What to do with that information is open to debate and discussion.
I'm usually one to say "I've been at this since 1983 for the most part, nah, no major change since 1998, 96, whatever", but, I'll also admit when I'm wrong and I agree with Greg here. They are tougher since debuting the label w/ barcode IMO. Much tougher on centering and edges IMO from personal experience in the last 5-7 months. Small sample size? Maybe. Maybe it continues however.
in which case PSA will reholder at lower grade and reimburse you for the difference.
I have always been confused with this statement. Is the reimbursement based on SMR value?
Example:
Say for the sake of discussion that a card has an SMR of $500 in PSA 8, $200 in PSA 7.
Say you bought a PSA 8 copy for $1k because the market was strong, and you send the card in to get reholdered. Say PSA found a defect that would downgrade it to a 7, so do they mail you the card in a PSA 7 holder and give you back $300?
It's all based on a negotiation you have with them. They don't seem to acknowledge their SMR if they do make the first offer. So be prepared with counteroffers if you want a fair reimbursement value
in which case PSA will reholder at lower grade and reimburse you for the difference.
I have always been confused with this statement. Is the reimbursement based on SMR value?
Example:
Say for the sake of discussion that a card has an SMR of $500 in PSA 8, $200 in PSA 7.
Say you bought a PSA 8 copy for $1k because the market was strong, and you send the card in to get reholdered. Say PSA found a defect that would downgrade it to a 7, so do they mail you the card in a PSA 7 holder and give you back $300?
Does this work both ways? For example if I send in a PSA 5 Doctor J rookie for re holdering and the person re holdering realizes the initial grade was way under graded will they up the grade?
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
in which case PSA will reholder at lower grade and reimburse you for the difference.
I have always been confused with this statement. Is the reimbursement based on SMR value?
Example:
Say for the sake of discussion that a card has an SMR of $500 in PSA 8, $200 in PSA 7.
Say you bought a PSA 8 copy for $1k because the market was strong, and you send the card in to get reholdered. Say PSA found a defect that would downgrade it to a 7, so do they mail you the card in a PSA 7 holder and give you back $300?
Does this work both ways? For example if I send in a PSA 5 Doctor J rookie for re holdering and the person re holdering realizes the initial grade was way under graded will they up the grade?
No. You'd have to submit the card under review service for that consideration to take place.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I don't think you need to worry about a one grade drop on a reholder. They're not regrading it, but if there's an obvious major flaw that was missed initially (say a PSA7 with a pinhole), they will take the opportunity to correct it.
Exactly.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I feel like PSA has gotten more strict in their grading personally. I see many PSA 7's today that look like cards in older PSA 8 holders. It's just not 7's to 8's on the whole. It seems to me that PSA is more strict by a grade on cards. I personally don't have a problem with the strict grading.
To me, blanket statements such as this are inaccurate. It's true that some older holdered cards in 8 holders would be 7s today. That includes the original label slabs as well as some earlier 'grade description on the same line as grade number' holders. However, I think that has more to do with small windows of time than general blanket rules that apply across the entire era. The "grader of death" was alive and well 10-15 years ago killing submissions. I had to return an entire order of 1969s for review due to the grades being skewed too low compared to other blocks of cards from the same set handled by other graders. Many got bumped on review. Then there were other times in the early 2000s where graders were definitely being more lenient, especially on cards with print snow.
For me, I look at the card and not the holder. There are many pack fresh cards in older holders that I would pay just as much for as any current era graded card. After all, it was during that timeframe that all the vintage packs and vending boxes were being busted. Today it's getting harder and harder to find clean, uncirculated raw material to be submitted.
The ones I'm keeping in my collection (99%) Im not worried about getting a new holder. If i were selling then I may depending on the card.
I feel like PSA has gotten more strict in their grading personally. I see many PSA 7's today that look like cards in older PSA 8 holders. It's just not 7's to 8's on the whole. It seems to me that PSA is more strict by a grade on cards. I personally don't have a problem with the strict grading.
To me, blanket statements such as this are inaccurate. It's true that some older holdered cards in 8 holders would be 7s today. That includes the original label slabs as well as some earlier 'grade description on the same line as grade number' holders. However, I think that has more to do with small windows of time than general blanket rules that apply across the entire era. The "grader of death" was alive and well 10-15 years ago killing submissions. I had to return an entire order of 1969s for review due to the grades being skewed too low compared to other blocks of cards from the same set handled by other graders. Many got bumped on review. Then there were other times in the early 2000s where graders were definitely being more lenient, especially on cards with print snow.
For me, I look at the card and not the holder. There are many pack fresh cards in older holders that I would pay just as much for as any current era graded card. After all, it was during that timeframe that all the vintage packs and vending boxes were being busted. Today it's getting harder and harder to find clean, uncirculated raw material to be submitted.
I completely agree with GEMINT. The newer the plastic doesn't equate to harsher grading conditions. I do like and prefer clean, unscratched holders, but it doesn't matter if it's a holder with a longer bar code (used pre 1996) or hologram on the front new holder. The only thing that really matters is the card itself.
I do hope many CU posters out there think that PSA is grading tougher today and they avoid buying older slabs. Then it will be easier for me to pick up deals on under graded older slabs.
What seems to be the reason for this perception of card's in older slabs not being as nice is prior to what 2006 or so, PSA didn't offer half grades.
I can tell you with certainty that there are thousands of cards in older pre-half grade slabs that are graded PSA 8, that would be 8.5's and 9's today.
The luck of the draw upon which grader ends up grading your cards today, is the most important factor with how well you do on your submissions.
I find significantly better cards in early holders and it isn't even close.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
PSA is a joke, want to be tough kind of company. i don't think they even stick to their grading standard descriptions.
I think it also depends on the issue. I am an avid collector of 1975 minis, and there is absolutely no question that 75 minis graded in recent years are generally much stronger for the grade versus cards graded years ago. PSA is also tougher in general on surface issues and centering now than they were in years past. Of course, none of this is hard and fast but simply what I've seen after submitting thousands of cards to PSA over the years as well as purchasing cards for my sets over that same time frame. As always, each card should be evaluated on its attributes and merits relative to the grade.
Tim makes a good point. '75 minis are an exception to my comment due to the holdering of 'shorties' in earlier holders. I guess the same comment could apply to Star basketball since they stopped grading them due to the difficulty in deciphering reprints from originals, though I'm not a bkb collector and only make that comment based on other posts I've read over the years.