Bishops threads on 59 varieties - can't find it?

59Horsehide

Have a 59 John Goryl - #77 WB that has a ?print? line on the inside of the lower right hand corner border. Runs from under the circle to bottom edge, past Chicago Cubs and Infield. I have seen write ups on similar 59's but can not find them. Any help would be great. Wish I could attach a pic -can do for ebay and emails but this site has me very confused.

Jim

bishop

Jim---this is a link to a site featuring 1959 variations and recurring print defects, I think I have most if not all of the ones discussed here. The Goryl is included but the one in the link and the one I have involve a blue dot over the N in his name on the front. If you have something else, would love to see it. Many of my 59 variants are posted throughout Don's ( Mariner) 1959 thread here

Al

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bishop

Jim---is this what you mean ? It is recurring but scarce and I have not seen it discussed



Here is one where defect seems to run above circle as well

59Horsehide

Originally posted by: bishop
Jim---is this what you mean ? It is recurring but scarce and I have not seen it discussed



Here is one where defect seems to run above circle as well

Thank you very much for the reply and the pics. Your top pic is exactly what I was asking about. You and Don are truly the experts on the 59's, and other years as well. I am planning on sending this to PSA for grading. I will try to get a pic so you can view the card. Thanks again, I really appreciate it.
Jim

59Horsehide

Here are pics (maybe-what a deal trying to use Photo Bucket) of the 59 Topps #77 -John Goryl card I was asking about. All comments related to variety and possible grade are welcome. I think the card has a shot at 7.5 PSA. Thanks

Jim

mariner

Jim, best of luck on grading your Goryl....it does look nice!

Al is the Master of variations.

bishop

Jim-- I am absolutely no expert on graded cards, but that card is a beauty

59Horsehide

Thanks, Don and Al, for your replies. Do either of you know if PSA states the variation on the grading label? I saw the PSA 7 shown earlier did not have any variety indicator. No big deal but wanted to get it right if that is what PSA does.

Jim

bishop

I am not a graded guy, but do follow the PSA master set checklists for variations that they recognize. Normally they do not recognize variations unless SCD or Beckett have recognized them first. Some think recurring print defects like this one should not be recognized as variations. Some would say only changes in a card made intentionally by the manufacturer should be recognized. But some of the most iconic hobby variations are just recurring print defects, like the 57 Bakep, the 58 Herrer and maybe 52 Campos.

Even "intentional" is hard to pin down. For example the two 52 Mantles and the non pose differences in the 62 greenies were not intended but did occur because of an intended change in the printing process.


Generally though PSA does not recognize recurring print defects until they gain hobby recognition. The 61 Fairly with the errant green smudge in the bottom of the baseball on the back is an example of a variant they recognized. Why ? I have no idea, but I think someone got Beckett to recognize it first

There is a great variants/variations thread on Net 54 with many examples like this one for many Topps sets, including 1959

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SlipC

Another great 59 Topps thread.

Those Goryl pics and the defect therein, are fascinating.

59Horsehide

Originally posted by: mariner
Jim, best of luck on grading your Goryl....it does look nice!

Al is the Master of variations.

Before I reveal the grade, I would be interested in what Al, Don, Bob, etc. think it should grade. See above pics of front and back and compare to the PSA 7 posted by Al. Thanks.

Jim

bishop

Jim-- as I mentioned, I prefer cards in their natural state and am no grading expert. Don affirmed that for me recently involving a card from another set. But I think yours looks better than the 7 I posted and both seem to be about the same amount off center. However I have seen many say that PSA standards have become more stringent over time.

LarkinCollector

6(PD) or straight 4 should be worst case. The PSA 7 would not get that grade today on a crack and resub.

mariner

Jim, my best guess is PSA 7.

59Horsehide

Thanks to each of you for taking a poke at my 59 Goryl card. PSA gave it the "6 a-rooskie".
I thought for sure I had a 7 and possibly a 7.5. Thanks too for the links you provided and for sharing your knowledge.

Jim.

LarkinCollector

From the waiting to reveal, I was expecting you got hammered. I think the front right corners (top especially) is probably what kept it in a 6 holder, though I would expect a 7 say 20% of the time subbing that card. PSA seems to reserve the half grades for near perfect centering on the front and it seems some graders never use them, most times it requires a review to get the half point bump.