Originally posted by: WingedLiberty1957 I submitted a 1964-D Peace D.Carr Overstrike myself and it was completed and shipped back today (Tuesday, Sept. 6th 2016)
I submitted it to PCGS as a Token ... with full documentation.
It doesn't appear to me PCGS even slabbed it Genuine or otherwise. They did assign a Cert Number as 81600058, but that number is not active in the database (at least not as of a few minutes ago).
I have a feeling it's coming back to me in the flip as and a message that says "PCGS does not holder D.Carr overstrikes" or something to that effect. I will know for certain on Thursday Sept 8th when I get the package back from PCGS.
I will post what the contents of the package shows. I did pay for a TrueView photo, but it doesn't appear PCGS was willing to do that either.
Originally posted by: WingedLiberty1957 I submitted a 1964-D Peace D.Carr Overstrike myself and it was completed and shipped back today (Tuesday, Sept. 6th 2016)
I submitted it to PCGS as a Token ... with full documentation.
It doesn't appear to me PCGS even slabbed it Genuine or otherwise. They did assign a Cert Number as 81600058, but that number is not active in the database (at least not as of a few minutes ago).
I have a feeling it's coming back to me in the flip as and a message that says "PCGS does not holder D.Carr overstrikes" or something to that effect. I will know for certain on Thursday Sept 8th when I get the package back from PCGS.
I will post what the contents of the package shows. I did pay for a TrueView photo, but it doesn't appear PCGS was willing to do that either.
Uh-oh, Cardinal.
The coins haven't come back yet, but here are my photos from PCGS:
Cardinal, it's interesting how your top two spotted (slightly) and the bottom two are clean as a whistle. Were these all done with D.Carr's MS68 finish?
Originally posted by: WingedLiberty1957 Cardinal, it's interesting how your top two spotted (slightly) and the bottom two are clean as a whistle. Were these all done with D.Carr's MS68 finish?
I think the first one is not spotted - it is just the lighting and reflections. The second one looks like it might have some tarnish spots. A "dip" would probably stabilize and fix it.
These are among the first over-strike coins I ever did. I was experimenting with different production techniques at the time. All four are the "high grade" finish. All four are the "Die Pair 5" issue (the first that was released). The first two are the early issue which was quad-over-struck at lower pressure. The last two were single-over-struck at higher pressure.
I love those single over struck at higher pressure ones. The spotting thing happens sometimes, we've all dealt with it. Hard to control.
Hey D.Carr, can you post the total mintages of all your 1964-D overstrikes ... all the different varieties and die pairs. These are all pretty rare, right? Mintages less than a few hundred or a few thousand?
All production has ended. All “1964” and “1965” dies have been totally defaced and scrapped. Total production of “1964” over-strikes (all types & issues combined, prior to die cancellation): 1,964. 50 additional pieces were broad-struck using the cancelled dies on various items. Items that were destroyed after striking are not included in the mintage totals. Total production of “1965” over-strikes (all types & issues combined): 523
It's cool that your total mintage of 1964-D Peace Dollars was 1,964 (that's something we can all remember!)
I didn't even know there was a 1965 over-strike, until I read that page.
At Baltimore I submitted a Patina (INA), Edward VII Wyon crown in gold that was treated this way and came back in a flip - even though listed in Odd & Curious Krause.
from the PCGS link on Tokens and Medals:
•Krause Unusuals listed in the US Section, from the reference "Unusual World Coins, 6th Edition" by Krause Publications.
was that Gold Crown in the US section?? if not, there is no reason why they would encapsulate it.
if I was you I would contact PCGS and ask for an explanation. I don't usually criticize PCGS, but it makes no sense to state clearly that they will encapsulate these and to then follow that with a rejection.
Originally posted by: keets if I was you I would contact PCGS and ask for an explanation. I don't usually criticize PCGS, but it makes no sense to state clearly that they will encapsulate these and to then follow that with a rejection.
It is certainly their prerogative to deny service on this particular item. But as you say, they should be clear about what they will and will not certify. It might be worth asking for an explanation.
Originally posted by: mach1ne I received the same the other week from this privately struck piece. Not holdered.
That is a nice one. I've got a small collection of various pieces relating to the Carson City Mint and Nevada from the 1970s to 1990s. Some of the 1-oz silver rounds are struck on the old CC press and they usually sell for fairly high premiums above melt value.
Code 96 is a refund, the only thing missing is an explanation which I believe we deserve as a group of loyal members. why would PCGS renege on what the submission page states?? I suppose the reasoning is probably something handed down from the PCGS Legal Department with the intention of shielding PCGS from some sort of retribution from Our Uncle, but these are too well documented for any confusion. also, as much as any of us may be against what they represent, they don't violate any law. it should be simple enough for PCGS to encapsulate them in accordance with their own guidelines and take additional safeguards by adding whatever is necessary to the insert.
Well we know they do certify coins from the Krause Unusual World Coins boot as their website states...
I've had a few of these certified by PCGS recently and they are listed right near the Carr coins in the same reference...
Looks to be an issue that PCGS has with the Carr overstrikes in particular, or maybe just overstrikes in general? Would be nice to have some clarification on this issue. I've had other coins submitted that should have been holdered in my opinion and returned ungraded w/o explanation. The Mel Wacks counterstamped Peace Dollars for example. Not sure why those can't be holdered by PCGS, even if just in a PCGS genuine holder marked as damaged coins? That said, the rules change over the years and I would guess all of this stuff, including the Carr coins will be in PCGS holders some day.
Originally posted by: ambro51 Lawyers, lawyers and more Lawyers. Government Lawyers, PCGS Lawyers... who wins? BTW Dan, stop looking at that Bugatti Veyron brochure.
At one of the Long Beach overs a year or so ago I took up the opportunity to talk briefly with David Hall. I showed him a copy of their press release relating to certification of tokens and medals that are listed in the Krause "Unusual World Coins" catalog (6th edition, US section), and a copy of that catalog where it lists my "1964-D" over-strike Peace Dollars. He said "those are cool", indicating that he was familiar with those over-strikes. I asked specifically if they would certify them. His answer was basically "not yet". At a subsequent show I asked him about it again. He said to send him an email with the particulars. So I did. I did not get a reply, but I was not necessarily expecting one. It seems that things are still in limbo regarding these since PCGS has not changed their official statement that still says they will certify things listed in the Krause "Unusual World Coins" catalog (6th edition, US section). I agree that they should either start certifying these, or change their official statement as to what they will and will not certify.
What a contrast this thread is to the one ATS. The snark are running heavy in that thread and they have limited out on the snark long ago. While I don't own any of Carr's fantasy pieces/overstrikes myself, I think they are really cool to look at along with being well made
Anyone who seriously thinks that pieces like the 1964 or 5-D Peace or the 1931 25c are deceptive and/or fraudulent must have their mind overstruck with a series of blanks. Jeez.
Bob, thanks for the link. I only read a few pages but found the discussion not much different from what takes place here. I wish I had time to read it all and compare what members from here who post ATS say there, if there is any difference.
Originally posted by: keets Bob, thanks for the link. I only read a few pages but found the discussion not much different from what takes place here. I wish I had time to read it all and compare what members from here who post ATS say there, if there is any difference.
RWB was long ago booted off here, but he is still over there, so that is one difference.
I would wonder two things --- what changed his opinion and point of view towards you and the products you make, and, has he ever acknowledged the ruling on his complaint??
Originally posted by: keets I would wonder two things --- what changed his opinion and point of view towards you and the products you make, and, has he ever acknowledged the ruling on his complaint??
He has never mentioned the complaint in any form or anywhere that I know of.
I don't know if this had anything to do with it, but his sentiments seemed to change abruptly once I disparaged Franklin D. Roosevelt by making and posting a picture of this Hard Times token :
He has, in the past, made comments in support of Democrats and against Republicans. So it may be a political hatred thing. I don't know. Personally, I don't differentiate that much between the two and I disparage both Democrats and Republicans when deserved.
Nice map of Nebraska, but where's the panhandle???
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
I submitted a 1964-D Peace D.Carr Overstrike myself and it was completed and shipped back today (Tuesday, Sept. 6th 2016)
I submitted it to PCGS as a Token ... with full documentation.
It doesn't appear to me PCGS even slabbed it Genuine or otherwise. They did assign a Cert Number as 81600058, but that number is not active in the database (at least not as of a few minutes ago).
I have a feeling it's coming back to me in the flip as and a message that says "PCGS does not holder D.Carr overstrikes" or something to that effect. I will know for certain on Thursday Sept 8th when I get the package back from PCGS.
I will post what the contents of the package shows. I did pay for a TrueView photo, but it doesn't appear PCGS was willing to do that either.
Uh-oh, Cardinal.
I submitted a 1964-D Peace D.Carr Overstrike myself and it was completed and shipped back today (Tuesday, Sept. 6th 2016)
I submitted it to PCGS as a Token ... with full documentation.
It doesn't appear to me PCGS even slabbed it Genuine or otherwise. They did assign a Cert Number as 81600058, but that number is not active in the database (at least not as of a few minutes ago).
I have a feeling it's coming back to me in the flip as and a message that says "PCGS does not holder D.Carr overstrikes" or something to that effect. I will know for certain on Thursday Sept 8th when I get the package back from PCGS.
I will post what the contents of the package shows. I did pay for a TrueView photo, but it doesn't appear PCGS was willing to do that either.
Uh-oh, Cardinal.
The coins haven't come back yet, but here are my photos from PCGS:
The coins haven't come back yet, but here are my photos from PCGS:
Any grades yet?
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Cardinal, it's interesting how your top two spotted (slightly) and the bottom two are clean as a whistle. Were these all done with D.Carr's MS68 finish?
I think the first one is not spotted - it is just the lighting and reflections.
The second one looks like it might have some tarnish spots.
A "dip" would probably stabilize and fix it.
These are among the first over-strike coins I ever did.
I was experimenting with different production techniques at the time.
All four are the "high grade" finish.
All four are the "Die Pair 5" issue (the first that was released).
The first two are the early issue which was quad-over-struck at lower pressure.
The last two were single-over-struck at higher pressure.
Hey D.Carr, can you post the total mintages of all your 1964-D overstrikes ... all the different varieties and die pairs. These are all pretty rare, right? Mintages less than a few hundred or a few thousand?
Updated Post:
Never mind, I found the mintage page ...
1964-D Mintage Totals
All production has ended. All “1964” and “1965” dies have been totally defaced and scrapped. Total production of “1964” over-strikes (all types & issues combined, prior to die cancellation): 1,964. 50 additional pieces were broad-struck using the cancelled dies on various items. Items that were destroyed after striking are not included in the mintage totals. Total production of “1965” over-strikes (all types & issues combined): 523
It's cool that your total mintage of 1964-D Peace Dollars was 1,964 (that's something we can all remember!)
I didn't even know there was a 1965 over-strike, until I read that page.
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My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Then I mocked up a black-background TrueView photo using those PCGS CoinFacts images.
In any case, the cert number is not active in the database.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
from the PCGS link on Tokens and Medals:
•Krause Unusuals listed in the US Section, from the reference "Unusual World Coins, 6th Edition" by Krause Publications.
was that Gold Crown in the US section?? if not, there is no reason why they would encapsulate it.
So the answer is NO ... PCGS will not slab D.Carr Overstrikes (at least this particular overstrike), even submitted as a medal or token.
So save your $$ submitting these to PCGS ... better to buy a coin with that money instead!
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
if I was you I would contact PCGS and ask for an explanation. I don't usually criticize PCGS, but it makes no sense to state clearly that they will encapsulate these and to then follow that with a rejection.
It is certainly their prerogative to deny service on this particular item.
But as you say, they should be clear about what they will and will not certify.
It might be worth asking for an explanation.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
I received the same the other week from this privately struck piece. Not holdered.
That is a nice one.
I've got a small collection of various pieces relating to the Carson City Mint and Nevada from the 1970s to 1990s. Some of the 1-oz silver rounds are struck on the old CC press and they usually sell for fairly high premiums above melt value.
Well Good now my slabbed ANACS DC coins will not be less desirable
There's the silver lining in the storm cloud.
Just got this back from PCGS in today's mail.
So the answer is NO ... PCGS will not slab D.Carr Overstrikes (at least this particular overstrike), even submitted as a medal or token.
So save your $$ submitting these to PCGS ... better to buy a coin with that money instead!
I think you deserve a refund or credit on your submission.
I wish PCGS would not have blinked on this.
I've had a few of these certified by PCGS recently and they are listed right near the Carr coins in the same reference...
Looks to be an issue that PCGS has with the Carr overstrikes in particular, or maybe just overstrikes in general? Would be nice to have some clarification on this issue. I've had other coins submitted that should have been holdered in my opinion and returned ungraded w/o explanation. The Mel Wacks counterstamped Peace Dollars for example. Not sure why those can't be holdered by PCGS, even if just in a PCGS genuine holder marked as damaged coins? That said, the rules change over the years and I would guess all of this stuff, including the Carr coins will be in PCGS holders some day.
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Lawyers, lawyers and more Lawyers. Government Lawyers, PCGS Lawyers... who wins? BTW Dan, stop looking at that Bugatti Veyron brochure.
How did you know
I showed him a copy of their press release relating to certification of tokens and medals that are listed in the Krause "Unusual World Coins" catalog (6th edition, US section), and a copy of that catalog where it lists my "1964-D" over-strike Peace Dollars.
He said "those are cool", indicating that he was familiar with those over-strikes. I asked specifically if they would certify them. His answer was basically "not yet". At a subsequent show I asked him about it again. He said to send him an email with the particulars. So I did. I did not get a reply, but I was not necessarily expecting one. It seems that things are still in limbo regarding these since PCGS has not changed their official statement that still says they will certify things listed in the Krause "Unusual World Coins" catalog (6th edition, US section). I agree that they should either start certifying these, or change their official statement as to what they will and will not certify.
Anyone who seriously thinks that pieces like the 1964 or 5-D Peace or the 1931 25c are deceptive and/or fraudulent must have their mind overstruck with a series of blanks. Jeez.
10-4,
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link please, I enjoy peeking in on some of our members wetting their pants at SleepyHollow.
Link
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I agree that they should either start certifying these, or change their official statement as to what they will and will not certify.
Uh-oh.
Bob, thanks for the link. I only read a few pages but found the discussion not much different from what takes place here. I wish I had time to read it all and compare what members from here who post ATS say there, if there is any difference.
RWB was long ago booted off here, but he is still over there, so that is one difference.
By the way, I finally compiled this:
ANA complaint filed by Roger W Burdette against (and with rebttal by) Daniel Carr
I'm glad I lead a relatively uneventful life!
I enjoy your products and look forward to acquiring more in the future.
I appreciate your hard work and Dedication to your Craft.
Take Care.
I would wonder two things --- what changed his opinion and point of view towards you and the products you make, and, has he ever acknowledged the ruling on his complaint??
He has never mentioned the complaint in any form or anywhere that I know of.
I don't know if this had anything to do with it, but his sentiments seemed to change abruptly once I disparaged Franklin D. Roosevelt by making and posting a picture of this Hard Times token :
He has, in the past, made comments in support of Democrats and against Republicans. So it may be a political hatred thing. I don't know. Personally, I don't differentiate that much between the two and I disparage both Democrats and Republicans when deserved.
Nice map of Nebraska, but where's the panhandle???
I thought it was Kansas.