The Bird and Magic rookie cards and Pack

rtimmer

Interesting article just published naming both Magic and Bird as the top players at their position. Along with of course Wilt and Jordan I don't think this honor will surprise anyone but I am still surprised at how reasonable their rookie card is compared to the run up seen in Jordan's and Wilts rookies lately. Top 5 NBA players at their position.

My passion though is unopened so I'm even more surprised that the unopened pack showing Bird and Magic's rookie is still as reasonable as it is. Their are a total of 27 unopened packs with their rookies showing and 19 PSA 10 examples of the card. With fairly similar populations The PSA 10 examples sell for over $40,000 and today an unopened pack sold for only $1,550.
Unopened Bird Magic PSA pack

With their unopened packs selling for well less than even the PSA 9 examples I find the unopened packs selling for even a smaller percentage of the card than I typically see for unopened rookies. I dont know why this is and would welcome any thoughts as to why this may be. And while I didn't get today's sale, I did get a couple recently one last month for $1,000 and a very nice solo Bird last week too. But for now I guess I will just be happy to opportunistically pick these up while I still can.

grote15

The odds of the card showing through the wrapper grading PSA 10 (or even PSA 9) are fairly long, which I would imagine has a lot to do with the discrepancy in pricing.

craig44

I think grote makes a good point about the quality of the card in the pack. I think that in the collecting world, . Collecting single graded cards is more popular than star on top packs so the demand for the packs is lower. I like opc baseball from the 60's-70's and though it is far more rare than the corresponding topps cards, the demand is far less so prices are lower

BIGBEN7

I can't understand it either. I think the unopened packs have started to lose their luster. I have been trying to sell my 1985 OPC Mario Lemieux pack with his rookie on back with no bites. PSA has only graded 6 packs. I think now collectors just want the card and not the pack but I could be wrong.

grote15

Generally speaking, I'd value a wax pack with a key rookie showing at 4-5 times the value of a generic pack in that same grade.

rtimmer

Originally posted by: grote15
The odds of the card showing through the wrapper grading PSA 10 (or even PSA 9) are fairly long, which I would imagine has a lot to do with the discrepancy in pricing.

Oh yes I certainly agree the card showing thru the pack (or even if you know a certain card is in the pack like a 1986 Fleer Manute Bol top pack that should contain a Barkley rookie) it probably won't grade a 10 and is even unlikely to be a 9 but then I feel the pack should stand on its own as a collectible because you won't be opening the pack for grading anyway. It is meant to be enjoy as an unopened pack with the added rarity of showing the stars rookie card.

I see unopened packs with rookies showing selling for around and over the standalone PSA 9 card routinely but the Bird/Magic card sells for 25% of the PSA 9 card and that seems relatively very low to me. Unopened pack collection to me is more appealing than graded standalone cards and I get that I'm in the minority but I would think this to be a card and unopened pack highly in demand.

For example the Michael Jordan 1986 rookie card front with sticker PSA 8 pack recently sold in a heritage auction for almost $20k when the PSA 9 individual card was selling for $5k and the sticker was $1,500. 1986 Jordan sticker back showing packs also sell for more than their respective PSA 9 sticker individual cards.

I just feel that arguably one of the top 3 most iconic basketball rookie card unopened packs should sell for let say around 75% of the PSA 9 card which would be Tripple the current price but it doesn't and I don't understand why??

DanBessette

Craig hit the nail on the head. Don't underestimate the demand side of supply and demand. Unopened collecting, while popular, is a niche. There's much more interest in collecting graded singles, overall.

sushihotwings

I bought two packs with the Bird/magic/Erving card on the back at the National a few years ago ungraded. One of them had a poor seal so I opened it. The card has a faint wax stain on the back which is no surprise of course but otherwise very nice. The other pack is still unopened and ungraded. There are collectors who collect unopened packs with stars showing purely for the novelty of it. Those collectors will pay a premium for this but you have to find that collector to maximize sale price. Otherwise many collectors look at packs with stars showing as taking the thrill out of the search for a gem mint example if the one showing is not gem mint. The practical approach. It is fun to have a pack with a star showing, but it isn't for everyone. My prize pack is a 1975 rack pack with George Brett or Robin Yount on the front. I can't remember now as I had both and sold one. Not sure which one I still have.

grote15

Both Dan and Craig are correct, too. Unopened collecting is a niche part of the hobby vs graded card grading, and while a star showing through the pack will generate a nice premium (IMO, 4-5 times the value of the pack without a star showing), it's the pack itself from the year of issue that is the primary aspect of the appeal to the unopened collector. Of course, if you can see the card on back through the wrapper, you might also be able to determine how well centered it is, too, and whether the pack is worth opening or not.

baz518

I was shocked to see that pack go for that much, BBCE had those for $700 earlier this year. Totally agree that the condition of a showing card reduces the value somewhat (wax or gum), but TRIAPD. Another thing holding that card back, compared to the Jordan, is the fact that it's actually a double print.

shu4040

i've valued them at the price of a psa 8 plus maybe the price of the pack. so with the magic/bird psa 8 like a $800 card, plus $200 for a psa 9 pack - it's a $1000-1100 or so?

I was getting into star backs pretty heavy when I got back into the hobby 4 years ago, but the elsipep drama really hurt it for me. with that set, the wax packs have been pretty immune from that story and I do still find them pretty appealing and definitely still significantly rarer.

I have a really nice psa 9 1972 topps fb staubach series 2 pack I'm thinking of listing again and seeing where it could go. last I saw it was a pop 3. psa 8 and 9s have gone kinda crazy there like everything else.

RipublicaninMass

It's on the back, probably higher if on the front

lahmejoon

Who was the one lucky enough to pull the pack with the Bird/Magic showing in the rip we did several years ago?

Cakes

It's a weak year and a weak set. I love the Bird/Magic card but if you don't hit on that card there isn't much else in that set.

The 86 Fleer BB is great because even if you miss on the MJ you can hit on so many other cards.

baz518

Originally posted by: Cakes

It's a weak year and a weak set. I love the Bird/Magic card but if you don't hit on that card there isn't much else in that set.



The 86 Fleer BB is great because even if you miss on the MJ you can hit on so many other cards.

I think all of this is already priced in. There's about a $800 difference in PSA 8 pack prices, probably more with the recent rise. I also think the amount of cards ruined by separating the panels hasn't fully been priced into the 80/81 set.

Cakes

Originally posted by: baz518

Originally posted by: Cakes
It's a weak year and a weak set. I love the Bird/Magic card but if you don't hit on that card there isn't much else in that set.

The 86 Fleer BB is great because even if you miss on the MJ you can hit on so many other cards.

I think all of this is already priced in. There's about a $800 difference in PSA 8 pack prices, probably more with the recent rise. I also think the amount of cards ruined by separating the panels hasn't fully been priced into the 80/81 set.

I agree on the separated panels. I have been to many flea market/yard sales and have seen so many with separated panels.

LarkinCollector

I still don't get why they don't grade the individual ones as cards like every other perforated issue. What makes these so special?

grote15

Originally posted by: RipublicaninMass

It's on the back, probably higher if on the front

For cello that is true, but for wax, better to have the card face out on back~no gum damage and a nylon can easily remove the wax stain from front of the card.

Doublestriker

I have a 1987 Fleer Basketball Box wrapped by BBCE that is labeled with a Jordan #59 showing on the back of one of the packs. Does this increase the value or decrease the value knowing that you will probably get 3 in the box anyway?
One way to look at is at least I know the box is legit.

I would be interested in some opinions.

Dustin

ThoseBackPages

i will give you $30 US Dollars for the pack alone. You can keep the other 35 packs

Doublestriker

Ha Ha Eric

shu4040

considering you get 2-3 jordans per box I can't imagine that helps the box value toooo much? probably a bump of a few hundred? with that said, 87 fleer boxes are so bananas these days I'm not sure what they're really going for. PWCC has a box up that I'm watching that seems like it's a 10K box

rtimmer

Originally posted by: DanBessette
Craig hit the nail on the head. Don't underestimate the demand side of supply and demand. Unopened collecting, while popular, is a niche. There's much more interest in collecting graded singles, overall.

Yes probably the simple answer is the correct one. My top focus is overall just a niche with less demand.

Also the math supports the 4-5 times pack as well as the PSA 8 plus a pack value theories. My valuation model has probably led me to over paying over the years but don't feel bad for me the recent increase in all values have made things work out just fine after all.

When I look back on things Muggyman increased my unopened collecting and Jose antics didn't slow me down much and helped me become much more educated in my buying. Maybe I just need to do some positive things to help bring in some new star showing unopened pack collectors to help drive some demand. No idea what but I will think on it, everyone should be as excited as I am finding a rookie hall of famer on a pack!