Interesting multi error note - Need help analyzing

Was setup at the Northwest Coin Club annual money show last March, near Minneapolis, MN. It is a very good show for both coins and paper money. This very interesting error note was brought to my table, with an interesting discovery story. The person that owned it found out about the error when he tried to spend it at a gas station, and the attendant refused to take it because it didn’t have a seal on the front. He thanked her profusely for refusing to take the note and even gave her a nice tip. He then took the note to the Northwest Money show, and shopped it around to the different paper money dealers. I was the lucky top bidder. The consensus among the dealers was that it was a genuine bill and a genuine error. Although we were all baffled as to how exactly it was made. It appears to be a combination of an offset print error, and a fold over error, both on the 3rd printing.

Here is my theory on how this was made. The note or Notes before it were likely folded over as well and as a result ink from part of the seal, district numbers, and serial number were put on the back plate (a classic offset print error). This may have even happened a couple of times, because the offset is really dark. Then when my note was printed it was folded over in one position when the seal and district number was printed, and then a slightly different position when serial number was printed.

[URL=http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/tomthecoinguy/media/Front of folder-offset error note - marked copy twice_zpsz0yuq2co.jpg.html]image[/URL]

There is no sign of he seal on the front of the note, you can see it a little bit in the above scan, because it is showing through from the offset on the back of the note. No sign of the seal being removed either. Also, the red letters is obviously something I added to the image in paint after the scan.

[URL=http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/tomthecoinguy/media/Back of folder-offset error note - Marked Copy_zpsifkuwjob.jpg.html]image[/URL]

This is the back, this is what makes this such a fascinating note. Looks like a combination of an offset, and a fold over.

[URL=http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/tomthecoinguy/media/Folder over 1_zpsimlexzsq.jpg.html]image[/URL]

I am calling this picture fold position #1. I made a copy of the note and printed it out with my laser printer, because I did not want to put any more folds in the note. As you can see, this fold puts the seal and the district number is in the correct position. With this fold, the seal that is now on the front of the note, also lines up perfectly with the offset of the seal on the back.

[URL=http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/tomthecoinguy/media/fold over 2_zps2u8fy9pz.jpg.html]image[/URL]

I am calling this next picture fold position #2. I may not have this fold exactly correct but I think it is pretty close. The fold puts the serial number were it should be, and in this position the offset of the serial number matches up with the offset of the serial number on the back. I believe this is the position the note was in when the serial number was printed.



So I think my analysis makes sense, but I am not an expert on the printing process of bank notes, especially the 3rd printing. I am looking forward to getting some good feedback and theories on how this was made. What really puzzles me, is it seems the note fold would have to have moved between when the seal was printed (fold #1) and when the serial numbers were printed (fold #2). I always thought they were printed at the exact same time. Is their perhaps a slight delay in the seal and serial numbers beinging printed? Enough of a delay to get the fold position to move.

Comments

  • TookybanditTookybandit Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭
    Wow, that's an extreme error! I would contact the author of one of the error books to get their expert opinion. It's something I've never seen, thanks for sharing! I hope it is genuine and worth a bundle image



    Link

  • TootawlTootawl Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭
    Contact Fred Bart. He has written several books on currency errors.
    If you would like to donate to the 2017 Walk to End Alzheimer's, please click here www.tinyurl.com/Cliff2017
  • You can get a hold of Fred through Executive Currency



    Here's a foldover error similar to yours - Error Link
    Come and see a forgotten piece of history.....

    http://www.depressionscrip.com



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  • Can this possibly be genuine? Love to hear more from the experts.
  • mainejoemainejoe Posts: 190 ✭✭
    Appears to me that the note is a foldover, as in your 1st example. But then it folded the opposite way right after printing, and left the same image transfer on the back. I don't believe it was hit twice with the 3rd print, just a foldover transfer.
  • As a number of you suggested, I contacted Fred Bart. He is unavailable this week, but was still really quick in giving me an initial response to my e-mail. Here is what he said:

    Long story short: printed fold with offset. Can provide additional details next week. Pretty cool; I've seen only a few similar since 1981

    I would say if someone of his caliber thinks my note is cool, that is a good sign.
  • TookybanditTookybandit Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭
    That's awesome!!!
  • luckybucksluckybucks Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    Awesome error.



    The serial number's color is a match, which is a positive.



    I would still verify it though.

    “Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech.” Benjamin Franklin
  • In an offset transfer, the lettering in the darker seal should be backwards. I believe it is. Must have been a terrific press jam.
    See you in October Appraisal Fair in Brookfield. Bring it along.
    National Bank Note Collector
    nobody gets it: "Cash Is King ! "
  • Originally posted by: ColonelCassiusKing
    In an offset transfer, the lettering in the darker seal should be backwards. I believe it is. Must have been a terrific press jam.
    See you in October Appraisal Fair in Brookfield. Bring it along.


    Yes, the darker seal is a Mirror image of the seal.

    Good to hear from you, and I look forward to seeing you at the appraisal fair again this year. I will bring the note along.
  • Fred Bart got back from his vacation, and gave me a call today. I would like to thank Fred for our conversation and everyone here who suggested I contact him. He confirmed that it was an authentic dual error note, with an Offset print error combined with fold over error. The fold over was in two different places as suggested in my pictures. He really liked the note and thought it was cool, he said he had only seen a few similar errors. I believe he said that he had a similar note in his own collection, that he sold a while back.

    He also mentioned that was to bad the note was not in a higher grade, but it is what it is. We then had a good conversation about how a note with an obvious error like that can circulate so much. I guess note everyone is numismatic geeks like us, and some might see something wrong and want to pass it on the next person as soon as possible.

    Fred mentioned that he thought I should get it certified and said that both PCGS Currency and PMG would be good, but he thought that PCGS and a really good error expert which might result in a better description on the holder. He also said that that having a good description would probably be the key to sell a note like that, because it probably takes a while to explain to a potential buyer how the error occurred.

    He estimated that because of the condition my bill was probably worth about $500 wholesale, but said I should not be scared to offer it for as much as $999 on ebay. It is just one of those pieces that is so unique and interesting he could easily see someone being willing to pay that much for it.

  • Jim61Jim61 Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the followup update.


    Jim61

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  • CMCARTCMCART Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭
    Awesomeimage
    Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865)
    5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
    02121809
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    Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
  • RoadkingUSARoadkingUSA Posts: 106 ✭✭✭

    I like the Note not certified and sealed so you can show the error in multiple ways.
    Collecting Serial Numbers
    9,21,89,99,999,2002
    12345678 or 87654321
  • Originally posted by: RoadkingUSA

    I like the Note not certified and sealed so you can show the error in multiple ways.


    That is true, but I also would not want to fold the note any more than it already has been. You probably noticed that in the fold examples above, I scanned the original not, and folded the printed copy.

    I will likely get the note graded before I sell it, but I am in no rush to do so. What I think I am going to do (was even planning this before I got this note) is putting together a display of offset print errors and exhibiting it at different shows.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 17,165 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Tookybandit
    That's awesome!!!


    +1
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