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PWCC High End Designation

Browsing through some of the current PWCC listings it has really hit home to me how little the PWCC high end designation means to me. Some of the cards with this designation I love, others I can't stand. It is, after all, just one more opinion on a card.

This PSA 9 1971 Ryan is a great example. I hate the diamond cut, but clearly neither PSA, PWCC nor the numerous high dollar bidders share my opinion. Diff'rent Strokes!

image

Comments

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    David, the back of the Ryan card looks pretty good to me. It is sitting slightly askew in the holder, though.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • JBrulesJBrules Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: grote15
    David, the back of the Ryan card looks pretty good to me. It is sitting slightly askew in the holder, though.


    +1
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,451 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That wouldn't bother me too much. To be honest, I am much more picky on the fronts of cards.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: grote15
    David, the back of the Ryan card looks pretty good to me. It is sitting slightly askew in the holder, though.


    It is diamond cut, look how parallel the top of the card is to the holder and compare it to the left side, which is not close to parallel. It is even more evident on the front scan.

  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭✭
    Sorry card doesn't look all that tilted to me.
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really don't want to quibble about it. It doesn't look that tilted because it's cut parallel to the long edges. It's the top edge of the card that's off, as the front scan shows. Look at the distance from the top edge to the "M" in Mets compared to the distance to the "S" in Mets.

    image
  • travis ttravis t Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭
    The top border appears to be straight from left to right, however, the sides appear to be angulated. It would be tough to argue PaulMaul's contention regarding the appearance of the card.



    The standards may be properly applied. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable owning a card with such a tilt. I avoid them like my stepmother.
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    Agree, top looks pretty straight comped to the sides!!
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If some of you guys aren't bothered by the cut of the card, that just reinforces my point, it's high end to you, not to me. I'd prefer a perfectly cut PSA 8 for much less dough.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The term diamond cut does not apply to this card. Not saying it has high end appeal for the grade but it's not diamond cut, either. I do see a slight tilt but as I stated earlier, the card is also askew in the holder which makes it seem a bit worse than it is. The stain on back would also bother me a bit, too.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What does diamond cut mean to you? To me, it means the edges don't meet at right angles. That seems to apply here. Perhaps your definition is different.
  • I love PWCC...

    But to have a "High End" moniker on a PSA 9 should mean that this card at least presents itself as a 10. That card does not look like a 10.



    The whole idea of "High End" is a great sales tactic by PWCC. Heck, their grading opinion has become more value and creditable than PSA's themselves. PWCC-HE are selling for more than a grade above the PSA grade.





    My question is this... Has anyone ever sent them a consignment had one of your cards nominated for the "High End" status????
    Current T206 Needs: (Updated 9/11/17)

    LaJoie Portrait 3+, Cy Young Bare Hand 3+

    Ty Cobb Bat Off 4+, ANY Red & Green Portrait

  • 70ToppsFanatic70ToppsFanatic Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭✭
    We had a thread about the whole PWCC-HE designation a ways back. My opinion hasn't changed.


    If Brent wants to be in the auction business then be in the auction business. If he wants to be in the grading business then be in the grading business.
    Being in both is a potential conflict of interest (similar to the Beckett purchase of Goodwin).

    Eye-appeal isn't something that any knowledgeable collector needs to have told to him/her by an auctioneer. But it certainly might be a way to take
    advantage of an inexperienced person.

    PWCC's "HE" designation is nothing more than another technique (among others that they use or don't use) to drive prices up. They could just as easily
    do an enhanced listing for cards they want to "showcase" in each auction, much like many of the AH's do by listing the premier lots first.

    I for one don't buy the holder or the auctioneers assessment. I let me eyes decide what I think is worth bidding on.


    Dave
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Diamond cut to me is a card cut like a parallelogram. I don't see that here but I am on a smart phone so maybe I'm just not seeing it. I'll take a look again when I get home.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, it's always a matter of degree, it could be I'm just sensitive to it but I find it noticeable.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm looking at an enlarged image of the card and still don't see a diamond cut card. It does appear that the METS on top of the card is slightly tilted, but I think what you are seeing as diamond cut is just the way the card is sitting in the holder. It would be better to look at the card in hand~it is more difficult to judge these things when looking at pixels on a screen vs holding card in hand. I know how sensitive you are to tilts, lol.. However, I do agree with you that this card is not high-end for the grade.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Could the diamond cut that some are seeing be an optimal illusion from a possible bend in the card within the holder?
    Current T206 Needs: (Updated 9/11/17)

    LaJoie Portrait 3+, Cy Young Bare Hand 3+

    Ty Cobb Bat Off 4+, ANY Red & Green Portrait

  • This card also looks good to me and I believe I have a good eye. Even if it was - it's so barely noticeable so it's not even a big deal.

    As far as PWCC High End garbage - I wouldn't be surprised if they started started reviewing cards and giving out a "high end" stickers - and you know what - people would do it in a heartbeat.
  • initialDinitialD Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭
    I can see what PMaul is stating. It bothers me too. Reminds me of the horrible cut borders on a lot of 64 and 67 Topps

    On the back scan, the Top and Bottom edges are pretty parallel to each other and to the inside edges of the case.

    But on the left side border, the space between the card and holder right by the ERA stat is wider than the top by LIFE

    Same goes for the right side just reversed top and bottom. I agree, definitely not HE IMHO!
  • BrickBrick Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't believe the vast majority of HE cards have not been reviewed by PSA, perhaps more than once. Maybe a HE card should be designated as "Not as nice as it looks"
    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
    http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/

    Ralph

  • lwehlerslwehlers Posts: 928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really enjoy looking at PWCC cards but I do not like the high end description that they use on some cards. to me a high end card is a gem mint ten not a psa 8.5. I have bought three cards from them and have been very happy with them and there fast shipping.
  • BatpigBatpig Posts: 460 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: wilkiebaby11

    I love PWCC...

    But to have a "High End" moniker on a PSA 9 should mean that this card at least presents itself as a 10. That card does not look like a 10.



    The whole idea of "High End" is a great sales tactic by PWCC. Heck, their grading opinion has become more value and creditable than PSA's themselves. PWCC-HE are selling for more than a grade above the PSA grade.





    My question is this... Has anyone ever sent them a consignment had one of your cards nominated for the "High End" status????




    Yes, I have. It was a recent sale of a 54 Howe that was graded 4.5, and I was surprised by it, but certainly didn't argue.
  • Originally posted by: PaulMaul
    Yeah, it's always a matter of degree, it could be I'm just sensitive to it but I find it noticeable.


    This card is certainly askew on the back. The top and bottom edges are parallel to the holder bumpers while the side edges are at offending angles to their respected holder bumpers.

    I think your senses are spot on.
  • SpinFadeSplash23SpinFadeSplash23 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭
    Has anyone sent items to PWCC and requested they look at specific items for HE status? If so, how did it work out?
    Joe

    IG: goatcollectibles23

    The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
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