Bob's 1969 set is up to $13,000--make that $14500...now $17,500
Buckwheat
Posts: 644 ✭
Here is a link to Bob's auction at Superior Sports. Any guesses on where it will end up??
Good Luck, Bob.
6/2/02 1:00 PM it's now up to $14,000!
SuperiorAuction enter lot 1652
edited to make link work.
Good Luck, Bob.
6/2/02 1:00 PM it's now up to $14,000!
SuperiorAuction enter lot 1652
edited to make link work.
Ole Doctor Buck of the Popes of Hell
0
Comments
Ron
I can not afford to bid on it, but if I could, I would begin at $22,000 (a dealer would do well if he/she won the lot at this level!). If a collector wins this auction, it will settle no worse than $24,750.
Ron
How many $$$$$ is your time worth? Unless "the hunt" is everything, assembling this or any set this size, is BOTH time consuming and expensive. This auction is merely expensive for the majority of us.
While you may be correct that many more cards will be graded, how many of those will remain in strong hands? I've looked at a lot of the various sets in the Registry, yours included, and they are impressive. I'm trying to put together a few sets, and despite some "generous" populations on some cards, I've had difficulty finding, much less purchasing them. The commons will be the stumbling blocks. Vintage sets will always be tough to complete at NM-MT and better levels.
If I'm buying it's PRICELESS. If I'm selling, it's WORTHLESS.
Looking for 1984 Donruss -
#238 Keith Hernandez PSA 10
-----------------and
#637 Omar Moreno PSA 9 or 10.
*****
Do I know you? And are you always as negative as your handle?
in my mind he has a beard and likes to fish just like hemmingway.
psa1965topps in the other hand remainds me of an insane person that looks like kurt vonnegutt.
bmw i know how he looks like, but he remainds me of the harkonen duke from dune.
lol ...jebus! i need a life
Groucho Marx
I think the sarcasm (you know, the ones not included) is what is perceived as negative. Having put together several sets...the hard commons are always the ones you don't have (regardless of the pops).
Although I have never put together a 1969 set, I have heard that the Brock (which isn't included) is pretty nasty to pick up in 8 or above.
Regards,
Alan
The set has alot of easy cards yet to be added, I didnt know the #1 card was all that tough, or a Ryan. What about the tough ones that are there? Dont I get any credit? Hey everyone its a piece of SH*T set. Its real easy to put together , at least the first 77% anyway. Thank you oh brilliant one for pointing it out to everyone.
Frank, Carlos, Mike, nice job on finishing for sets. I bet the first 77% was real easy too. Unfortunately Frank,Carlos and Mike know how difficult the first 3/4 is too. I'll tell you what , since your such a pro at set knowledge why dont you buy the piece of crap and finish it? Why dont you just start your own and get it to 77%. Then you can comment on how easy or difficult the set is to put together.
I apologize to everyone who might read this bullsh*t , I just cant stand people who think they know everything.
Just ignore these guys. It's clear they never took on the challenge of a quality '69 set. I strongly disagree that getting to 77% is easy. If it's that easy then why aren't there a bunch of people over 70% right now? I know myself and 3 other hard core collectors (Ron, John, and Ray) have been at this for years and it's a very tough set. I collect 67-75 and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's the toughest set to find well centered. I've seen several vending runs of this stuff where 60% of the cards are not gradable due to centering problems. I go to shows all over the country and I haven't seen a nice run of '69s by any given dealer in 16 months. I think the brick wall is at 45%-55% and after that it's slim pickin's.
That set is easily worth $22,000. As I've said before, it makes sense to buy a complete set or near complete set and even pay a premium due to the amount of time saved and the amount of money spent on postage buying one card of at a time. If these '67 sets with only the stars graded 8 and the rest of the commons that are raw can sell for $17,000+ on Mastro, you should easily get $24,000 for yours.
Dude said it well. I still retain many NRMT 7's in this set just because quality material is so tough. Outlaying enough cash I could bump my set up another couple of percent filling in the rest of the keys I'm missing but I have concentrated my efforts on accumulating the commons recently.
Believe me; 77% is well past the wall.
Quality raw material is very tough as Dude outlines. To make this even worse there is an acknowledged bunch of commons that are near impossible in high grade due to the sheet location and poor cutting practices.
Finally Dude's pointing out the quality of collectors that are "stuck in the 40 -65% range" is very appropriate. I often feel exactly that as I try to chip away now towards completion. I am sure we all would attest to that.
Its just flat out rough sledding. I even paid $21.00 to pick up a pretty nice PSA 7 Satriano here recently knowing full well I will have limited near term shots at an 8. Hey; I thought that was a pretty good snag considering what goes on in the chase for cards in this set. A combination of meager supply of high grade 69's combined with an eager demand for tough commons makes one persons quest to complete this set all the more impressive to me.
Therfore Bob, your set blows me away. Best of Luck. It is certainly worth in excess of $20,000 in my humble opinion.
RayB69Topps
I'm not familiar with the 1969 set but I can bet it has been a difficult task to get where you are
at. Not just in terms of $$$ but time as well. Between the shows and ebay there seems to be
a slim supply of nice high end cards from the 50's and 60's. I'm sure there is still cases where there
is a good deal of ungraded cards out there somewhere. But this is a time consuming task for
sure. And great patience is definitely needed. And I agree with the comment about Mastro lots
of sets, with only stars graded, selling for ridiculous money. Your set is definitely worth the premium.
If I had the dough I would definitely consider it. Good luck and keep cool. Don't let differences
in opinions upset you!
aconte
P.S. The only card I have from 1969 is a raw Johnny Bench #430. I've been looking for this card in
PSA 8. How hard is this to get in 8 or better? I see there's a nine on ebay now. I passed on an
eight at $70 a few months ago since I thought that was high. But I haven't seen one since.
Many of the raw ones are centered poorly. What is a good price for an eight?
Thanks!
Gaspipe, it's a great set you're selling, and I can appreciate the long hours spent on building it. I wish you good success with the auction results.
I was working on a 1969 set for several months and dropped it. I went into it not knowing anything and gained a huge appreciation for how difficult this set is in a very short period of time. I saw several psa 9's on ebay fairly inexpensive and thought it would be a fairly easy set plus they are nice looking cards so I decided to give it a shot. What I discovered was that there are maybe 50 - 60 cards that are extremely easy to get in high grades but many of the other 500+ cards can be very difficult with some virtually impossible. If your set was 10% complete then it wouldn't be any big deal but at 77% in psa 8 and 9 for this particular year that's a tremendous accomplishment.
I can't imagine that set not going for at least $20,000. In fact, I would be surprised if it went that low. You have a lot of cards that are very very difficult to come by. I do know for sure that completing a 69 set is far tougher than completing a 65 set. The 65's are tough but there aren't as many cards that are virtually impossible to find. Every card as at least one example in psa 8 and all but a handful have more than 5 psa 8's in existence. That definitely can't be said about the 69's.
Good luck with your auction and I'm hoping it's a huge success. I think a good sales price would be good for all set collectors.
wayne
Regarding building the '69 set, I agree with the other set builders' earlier replies. This is one tough set. Getting 75% or better of the set is not difficult if your willing to accept 7's. But to get over 75% with all 8's and 9's is a significant achievement for this set. Just comparing the population discrepancy between Al Dark and some of the other 1st series commons shows how problematic many cards are, even straight from packs or vending runs. I recently found a dealer that had a stack of high quality first series commons. I picked up several each of Lemaster and Dark that are well centered gems. But none of the tough cards were even PSA 7 quality.
I originally thought my set would end up at 90% 8's or better after grading out all the star cards and about 10% of the commons. But lately I've been receiving alot of 7's for some reason and my GPA is going way down (I haven't registered all the 7's yet). It will be interesting to see if anyone is able to build out the set 100% in 8 or better.
The Bench AS is a fairly tough card in 8. I wouldnt pay a fortune for it because 1 will come up again eventually. I'm going to bid strong on the 9 up on Ebay now. There is only 5 or 6 of them. I had a nice one I sold not to long ago and got $450 or so for it. This one is a little better centered. $70 for an 8 is moderate to high, Ron, Dan, Ray, John what do you think?
I know I shouldnt get upset but it seems that everytime I auction an expensive lot someone has something to say.
Dan, I just opened 8-1969 1st series vending boxes and 90% or more was ungradedable. None of the tough cards, a couple of Clementes and 2 Aarons. Very dissapointing. I should not of opened them.
As for selling and grading cards. If you havent noticed I have been listing less and less. I have 6 or 7 guys who I let pick what they want when an invoice comes in and then I list the rest. As time goes on and my new venture improves and its been doing very well (knock on wood) I hope to stop having to submit to support my habit altogether. Time is something I have less and less of and scanning, listing, searching, sorting, takes countless hours. I usually double my outlay and thats great but its been 3 years at this and I'm getting little worn out. I will always help the friends I've made over the years on requests that they may have as the cards are going nowhere. With 25% of my brothers stuff looked through and my enormous amount of cardboard of my own I'll always have cards. I think that over the next few months I'll get down to a dozen or so a week. Thats about it unless my fortunes change! LOL. You never know I could go broke and have to start all over again.
Bob
gemmintman you hit it right on the head.
Thanks for seeing what I saw.
Bob
I hope you didn't take any comments I made the wrong way. They certainly weren't intended as such. I only wish I had the dinero to go after your 69's. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm down to one missing card in one of my mid-fifties sets. I'll take it in a seven to complete it, and I'm always on the lookout to upgrade the other four sevens to nm-mt. It's been so long trying to finish it in 8's, and the anticipation is so strong, that I'm not sure how I'll feel when I finally get the cork into the bottle. So I've been through it, and continue to build other sets, some listed, some not. When I see a fellow collector who has put as much time, effort and money as you have into a project and then have to sell it, I feel as if I'm selling some of my own collection. Continued success in your endeavors.
If I'm buying it's PRICELESS. If I'm selling, it's WORTHLESS.
Looking for 1984 Donruss -
#238 Keith Hernandez PSA 10
-----------------and
#637 Omar Moreno PSA 9 or 10.
*****
The Real 'mosi2'
Bob,
My personal feeling is that you should not have to defend your set. IT IS AWESOME!!! Even if someone writes a negative post (Which I believe "Wait" did) that is his opinion. I had a forum battle with a member once (I think acowa??) and I still regret it to this day.
Wait,
Bob didn't start this post, nor was he self promoting his set.
One point that need to be made here is the sets of the late 60's, and 70's have on average 660 cards. Already, that is at least a $5,000.00 investment in grading fees alone. 77% of any BIG set is a HUGE undertaking.
This is a "PSA SET REGISTRY FORUM" not a LOW POP set building board. Until someone request a "ALL-TIME LOW POP SET" and BJ lists it this will remain as such.
So my question is...What exactly was your point (Negative overtones aside), that this BIG set is inferior because it was not complete or it doesn't have all low POP cards in the set?
IMHO, Bob has probably sent in most of the cards to be graded, and I think if he wanted it filled with LOW POP PSA 7's he could have done that. Instead, he has kept this set PURE with PSA 8's & 9's.
My 1974 Baseball set is 100% complete (674 cards) with many POP 1 of 1's, and 20 of them don't even grade a PSA 8. As a matter-of-fact Card #8 GEORGE THEODORE is a POP 1 of 1 albeit a PSA 6 with none HIGHER. Does that improve my set or devalue it???
Maybe I am way off base here but when I read your post, as a collector, I thought it was a slap in his face. Usually those negative posts are reserved for the "SPORTS CARDS & MEMORABILIA FORUM" which is exactly why I no longer post there. Again, it was your opinion and your entitled...I just wish you expressed it better.
Carlos
I didn't mean to set off any firestorm. I was just posting for fellow collectors the Link to bob's auction, and keeping everyone informed.
I am very impressed with the set, and it is the first registered set that I am aware of that is going off for auction. A huge amount of work and expense have gone into putting it together. I think all set collectors will be interested to see how it does.
I agree with Waittil and Davalillo that the set has a lot of work to go, and that in the future, it may be easier if more cards as graded. But I agree that the tone of the posts was a little sharper than necessary. Bob is obviously very emotionally attached.
In any case, as one collector to another, I again say "Good Luck, Bob".
And everyone keep cool.
Buck
#1 1961 Set
If we did have a battle...I don't remember it...and certainly don't have any hard feelings.
Rob,
I think what gaspipe's going through is a case of the pre-sale jitters. We're talking about a sizeable investment of time and money on his part and he has every right to take it personally when his effort is "trivialized" on the board. The set is already up to almost $17,000 (including the 15% buyers premium) so I think the real issue at hand is whether this auction medium is better than EBAY or some other avenue. I know Mike Castaldi had some really interesting ideas when he started selling off his high grade 1972's (which was over 90% complete).
As a fellow set builder, I hope he makes a killing on the set. All he needs is a good bidding war. I am keeping my fingers crossed for him.
Regards,
Alan
On my earlier observation, I don't think anyone should get too excited about low population numbers for post 1960 material. I think it has been only recently that most collectors even thought of collecting graded sets this recent. There has got to be over 100 nrmt-mt sets ungraded for 1965-72 sets(each year). I would also think that there is a lot of vendor quality stuff around from these years that is not part of sets. Given the success of the registry these will be graded--I am grading mine. I would just be willing to bet that 12-18 months from now we will be swimming in material from this era in psa 8 and putting together psa 8 sets from this era will be time consuming but not really difficult.
Please, if you wish to respond, this is not a knock on this gentleman's set.
In regards to the Bench AS, I would place a small premium on any well centered AS card. As you already know, the the "global" grade of PSA 8 or PSA 9 does not adequately characterize the eye appeal of a card from the 1969 set. $70 might be a good price for well centered PSA 8, but a steep one for a 70/30 centering ratio. Personally, I find AS cards to be extremely challenging.
Ron
i will take a 69 shannon,72 schaal ia,expos team,mays ia please in an 8 nq.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Commons, more so than stars, have been abused over the years. Dealers didn't keep them in their screw down holders locked in display cases. They put them in binders for customers to thumb through, pull out and jam back into the plastic pockets. Unless you find them in vending runs, unopened packs or untouched sets, they'll be hard to locate in high grade. Most of these commons are rare because what was pulled out of vending/unopened packs was always O/C.
Ron
Link to two successful submission of 1969's
Regards,
Alan
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the link. It is well known that the first series (1-109) exists in high grade vending as well as unopened material. In fact, I have about 180 1969 1st series cards in unopened rack packs as we speak. However, having certain cards from the 1st series ; such as, PSA 8 Satriano, Roy White, #8 League Leaders, #85 Lou Brock, Mike Andrews (which are well known to be poorly centered) would be great. In addition, there is plenty of vending material from the 6th series (513- 588). Thus, one needs to appreciate that a PSA 8 in the 6th series would not pose the same difficulty as many of the cards that achieved the PSA 8 in the 2nd (110-218) or 3rd series(219-327). Assessment of Bob Cacamese's collection will reflect that the 2nd and 3rd series is well represented albeit at a seemingly lower grade than his 6th series.
Ron
Your original post did not specify which series you were referring to...it simply said "I agree with 69topps8 in that the "hope" that there is a large accumulation of appropriately centered NM/MT cards from the 1969 set is wishful thinking. No one disputes that there are large quantities of 1969 cards with sharp corners. However, finding well-centered cards from this batch is extremely challenging. In addition, not all PSA 8 cards are of equal appeal. It is reasonable to assume that the better examples of the cards that Bob Cacamese received were selected for his registry set. The near set currently on Superior was not "thrown" together and would be of higher quality than systematically grabbing a bunch of "8's" off the auction circuit."
I can certainly understand that you meant to say selective series would be tough.
That being said...gaspipes accumulation is incredible. I hope he gets a ton of money for them.
Regards,
Alan
Your point is well taken. By the way, I attempted to "comb" Larry Fritsch's 1969 inventory about 3 years ago through his "one-of-a-kind" avenue. The cards were sharp and of high quality (PSA 7 to PSA 8), but suffered from the usual centering problems. I principally focused on the 7th series at the time and stopped because e-Bay was giving me more bang for the buck back then. The only PSA 9 I submitted from his inventory was #80 Norm Cash [from one of his "1st series" lots no less as opposed to the "one-of-a-kind" route]. Incidentally, I have kept a copy of his 1969 1st series SCD ad which I believe is a reflection of centering/cut characteristics of 1st series cards.
Ron
Thanks for the info on the 3rd series fire. I learned something new today.
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
Its about where I thought it would be. I think 1 or 2 more bids will take it. I still think its worth the $20000 plus the vig ($3000).
By the way I had 2 more second place finishes this week. That makes 1-win 4-second 2-third in 8 races.
You'd better keep that quiet if you want people to throw more money at your set!!!
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
I wanted to extend you a final good luck wish for your set tonight! I will be following it close. It's already out of my range. I'm hoping that a dealer will buy it rather than a collector and break up the set.
Good Luck! Like Dude, I hope a dealer wins it and breaks it up. There are a lot of wonderful cards in that collection.
Ron