Palestine Mandate coins in Mint State

atom

Population reports would indicate it's nearly impossible to assemble a mint state set of the circulation coins minted 1927-1946. Can anyone opine on the approximate cost and if it's realistic to embark on the goal of locating all coins in mint state?

Zohar

MarcMoish! Please chime in.

MrEureka

It all depends on how much time you have and how hard you're willing to work at it.

FWIW, I think it's a great idea for a ten year project, and a really bad idea if you want to do it quickly.

marcmoish

Yes it is possible, and a cool challenge.



I did a few years back - look at our hosts registry Mandate Madness set (retired) - it took like Andy said about 10 years but that's because I opted for higher grades also. Actually took me personally longer I recall.



So when you say in mint state it does make a difference if you looking for MS62-63 v/s 64-65 or better etc. Obviously that will factor the cost side of all this too.



Look up some of the older threads for more info.



I have not followed it that well in last 2 years for sure but it is a solid series to complete.



Good luck

atom

Thanks for the input. I can be patient, and 10 years would be very satisfying for me. I just find the series to be a historically interesting one and I've picked up already a decent number of the common dates. Just don't know what to expect in terms of frequency for the scarcer dates.

atom

I checked out the set - wow!

But I'm encouraged as I will be happy for a MS63 set. Thanks for sharing your experience and well wishes

krueger

Many series like this can take
Decades to complete. I tried to complete
The US Philippine series in unc ms60 or
Better. Started in 1975 . Forty- one
Years later i am one coin short. I learned there
Are only for sure two , but maybe three
Such sets today. I Thought it would be easy.
Enormous amounts of time spent ,searching, attending shows.
auctions,
upgrading selling, saving as costs increase over time.
avoiding other series so as to have the cash to compete
with others at auctions etc., and always waiting for an opportunity.
to compete. rarer then the coin sometimes.
Can be discouraging too when others with greater resources
beat you out of a coin you searched for for years only to lose it.

Do the best you can on grades, while seeking a complete set.
be proud of it , and all you will learn along the way.

atom

Thank you Kreuger for your advice and forewarning

I am working on several different collections, and hope I'll be successful to complete a decent mint state set of Palestine coins even if it's ms62-63. I know there are elusive coins in each set, that's part of the thrill hunting them. I'll try to update my progress as I go along.

desslok

I can direct you to a vest-pocket dealer in Israel who might be able to help you (certainly with the more common stuff, but maybe with some of the rarer). PM me if you're interested.

Population reports for this type of material are misleading. The slabbing craze for them only started a few years ago and most of the material out there is still raw. That said, some of the key dates are almost unheard of in mint state. I would love to hear about your progress.

Zohar

desslok - good seeing you here!

desslok

Thanks Zohar, I'm still lurking here, but usually don't have much to say.

I recently won a nice piece for my collection on eBay, I'll post about it once I get the actual coin in the mail.

Zohar

Here is a good starting point

atom

The '27 date for all denominations appear to be easily available. Presumably as the first year issue, I guess they were retained in large quantities. Thanks for the link of the upcoming auction items. Do you have any opinion on the NGC graded Palestine vs PCGS?

atom

really impressed with your websites coins!

Zohar

Thank you atom.

marcmoish

The '27 date for all denominations appear to be easily available. Presumably as the first year issue, I guess they were retained in large quantities. Thanks for the link of the upcoming auction items. Do you have any opinion on the NGC graded Palestine vs PCGS?



They actually were not saved much at all, on the contrary, however it seems one gentleman most likely hoarded a small bunch in the 1,2,5, 10 & 20 Mil denominations in just minted state of preservation. These all seem to have been graded in the last 12 mos. Most got grades from 63-67. The 66-67's are cool as these are really tough in those grades.



Seems the 50 & 100 Mil denominations did not meet that fate, and as such are scarcer obviously.



Re the services, IMHO, they both grade equally perhaps our hosts a tad tighter in this series but over the years I have dumped that line of thinking after being sorely disappointed with some grades received. Hence in my book both NGC and PCGS are equal, and neither deserve to be on a pedestal for being superior per se.

atom

Great information, you have a lot of experience with this series I gather. My goal isn't to necessarily build a most expensive set, rather to have a consistent grade to obtain each denomination and date. I have already assembled a core group of commonly available dates ( 1927 and some others) in MS63. I think a complete set will still present a challenge, and provide good value over time as a mint state class.

Of course the handful of rare dates will be difficult, that's why I started this thread with the question if it's even reasonable.

atom

I don't know if it's just fortunate timing, but a large run of Palestine 10-100 Mils in MS sold early this week on eBay, with another group of lower denominations up for sale this Sunday. Final bids exceeded mine for those lots I'm seeking. Generally grading MS 62-64, the keys somewhat below still commanding strong prices IMHO.

Zohar

Originally posted by: atom

I don't know if it's just fortunate timing, but a large run of Palestine 10-100 Mils in MS sold early this week on eBay, with another group of lower denominations up for sale this Sunday. Final bids exceeded mine for those lots I'm seeking. Generally grading MS 62-64, the keys somewhat below still commanding strong prices IMHO.

Just beware that since Marc built his award winning set, many mint state pieces have found their way into slabs. Be picky in terms of eye appeal and price as its no longer as much of challenge to build a set in low MS for most dates, except series rarities. It's doable.

atom

Today's eBay results were impressive. 1945 2 Mils (not as rare as 1946) in MS66 was bid up to $2455, and a 1934 5 Mils MS65 brought $1941.

The common dates brought respectable bids.



Zohar: I appreciate your remarks. I prefer purchasing raw coins, as I have seen many misgraded slabs (both up/down). I didn't even bother to bid on the '34 for example, the images to my eye wouldn't make this a MS65.



Have you had personal experience with resubmitting for a higher grade and if so, what has been your experience and % success? I am asking specifically about this series, as I think the grading standards vary across countries.

Zohar

Of course always look at coin and then slab. I suggest looking at coin in hand or through trusted dealer/collector. Risky doing so on ebay.



MarcMoish is far more of an expert in grading (in general) and series itself.



Good luck!

marcmoish

Zohar - thanks but not really following this series the way I used - 30 years is long enough but I took a peek at this one Atom - the '45 2 Mil looks as graded to me but IMHO it went for moon money - I believe there are more examples and as you see 3 bidders bid it from $114 to a whopping $2355 in ONE click!!



Take a look at the POP's - NGC has 6 pcs already in 66RD and a whopping 48pcs in 65RD, PCGS has 27 64RD, 6 pcs in 65 and NONE in 66 - so we "know" these two services grade RED differently just by that anomaly.



c***s ( 67Feedback score is 50 to 99) US $2,455.00

Jul-03-16 09:54:29 PDT



o***o ( 435Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $2,430.00

Jul-03-16 09:54:38 PDT



o***o ( 435Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $2,355.00

Jul-03-16 09:54:35 PDT



b***o ( 2318Feedback score is 1000 to 4,999) US $2,134.00

Jul-03-16 09:54:22 PDT



s***i ( 201Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $114.00

Jul-02-16 19:42:45 PDT



the '34 5 Mil I agree with you it does NOT look 65 and in hand I bet it ain't a 65 either. And that one is graded by our hosts. The price realized also is insane and if thats the case the buyer that got min2 years aho scored big time as this date is very scarce in true 65 and mine went for a steal. Only one of 2-3 pcs that I believed should have gone for more money. Sometimes a buyer really gets a good deal



But keep it up - I would avoid RAW buys as most are dreck! And you WILL get burnt.



The ebay seller of those 2 above and a few others lately is a good guy though.







edited for added POP info.

atom

Thanks Marcmoish for your info...



You make an interesting point by comparison, but after closer inspection I believe you're pulling the wrong POP numbers!

The NGC pops you're quoting are for the 1927 2 Mils, not the 1945. The PCGS you have pretty much correct, I see 7 MS65 Red not 6.



The main point I'd make is the 1927 First year issue was hoarded in UNCs and are the most commonly available dates across all denominations. Having said that, it is very peculiar that the 1945 date in MS64 RD has 27 vs the 1927 MS64RD at 17 at PCGS!!? I think the ratio at NGC makes sense with fewer '45s graded MS in contrast to the '27s.



Any explanation?

desslok

Just an anecdote when it comes to TPG-graded Palestine coins. Quite a few years ago (was it 15 years?) I purchased on eBay a Palestine 50 Mils coin graded NGC AU-50 (one of the better dates, I don't recall which one), sight-unseen except for the seller's images which weren't very good. I sent it to Bill Rosenblum, who is widely considered to be the #1 coin dealer and expert on the subject. Bill's opinion was that it was a VF at best.

Now, we're not talking about a 1 point difference of opinion or a borderline case. VF and AU are very different grades, or at least they should be.

I had Bill put that it writing, and sent the coin to NGC, invoking their grading guarantee. NGC ended up reimbursing me for the purchase price of the coin. Based on their guarantee, I thought they should have paid me the catalog value of a real AU coin of that date (which was much higher that my real purchase price) but they thought differently. I guess I should be thankful that they at least paid something, although I was still out shipping fees multiple ways and some handling fee I paid Bill for his service.

desslok

I found my old records of that account. It was a 1931 50 Mils coin slabbed NGC AU-55 (not 50 as I previously said), which I bought for $135 in 2002.

marcmoish

Would love to see a picture of that one...if you still have it

desslok

I would have to dig up my old desktop computer, plug it in to a monitor/mouse/keyboard and hope that it still fires up. If the hard drive still works, it would have the images.

marcmoish

big task - don't bother if it will kill a day