1953 Bowman Color Help

lahmejoon

Hi All,

I'm becoming more interested in putting together this set. I'm almost exclusively a raw collector, but would probably want to acquire the bigger cards slabbed, which brings me to my question:

Is there any telltale sign that a card may be a reprint? I've looked at some cards on ebay listed as reprints and when I compare the backs of the card to ones that are slabbed, I cannot ascertain a difference. This sort of makes me a little gun shy, even on raw commons, that someone could doctor the card to look old and pass it off as an original.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks!

Nathaniel1960

Another thing to consider, 53 Bowmans were often factory short-cut, so you might get some min size req rejections at PSA, but the card was not altered or trimmed, it is just factory short. If you are willing to live with that, you can pick up 53 Bowmans in otherwise nice shape, just slightly smaller, for major discounts over graded.

With respect to reprints, just smell them.

53BKid

First, I'll tell you that collecting this set is addicting. With only 160 cards, it's easy to assemble, but you'll likely be upgrading forever.

To answer your question, the reprints on eBay typically have large white boarders, high gloss, and bright red and white backs. I've seen a Berra card recently with cream color card stock, but the gloss and photo weren't right.

There are an increasing number of sellers out there who are selling cheap star cards of all key Topps and Bowman cards. These tend to be somewhat blurred, a thinner card stock and a smooth feel, indicating that they're newly printed. Under magnification, the cards do not have round print dots, but a kind of wavy irregular pattern.

Originals should be readily identifiable, and have a distinctive feel and weight to the cards. Depending on what grade you're looking to collect, the cards will typically show tiny frays seen under 10x magnification. Often, the cards have varying degrees of wax stains, though this doesn't often lower PSA grading. '53s, like other old cards, often have an aroma as well.

I've collected 53 Bowmans since I first discovered them as a kid in 1976. My then girlfriend's brother showed me them and I was smitten. I collect in all grades except ultra-high graded cards, and am constantly building sets. I've sold 6 color sets, and 4 black & white.

Less than mistakenly purchasing reprints or counterfeits, I'd be concerned about purchasing cards that have been trimmed. Ebay's full of them. You'd think that the grading companies would catch most of them, but I've seen more and more trimmed cards that are graded, even 8s. I realize there's a degree of tolerance size, and have had a couple rejected myself, but you can see a significant amount trimmed cards. If one boarder is razor thin, and the opposing boarder isn't fat, the card's likely been trimmed. Spotting them graded is easy, the card falls short of the holder size. You can also tell trimmed cards when 2 corners are sharp as a tack, and the other 2 soft, or looking at the card under a 10x loop, one side is bright and new stock, while the other is dulled. Some poorly trimmed cards show irregular cuts where the edge that's been trimmed shows shavings.

The toughest part about collecting the set is finding well centered cards for any particular grade. There are many high numbered cards that are almost always off-centered. For example, PSA only gives #129 Russ Meyer a 2 weighting, but to come across one well centered has been nearly impossible for me.

If you're looking to purchase economically, purchasing a groups of cards in larger lots and partial sets has worked for me in the past, but its rare to find higher quality lots on eBay these days.

Start with the key cards and high numbers. Low numbered commons and minor stars are much more plentiful, and dealers have tons of them.

Wishing you well in your endeavor.

TNP777

Ah, I loves me some '53 Color. I just started putting the set together after last year's Natty. Condition? As always, well loved.

I'm down to 60 cards, with 16 others that I wanted to upgrade from a large trimmed lot I picked up early on. I also want to upgrade my Musial, but that's not a priority. That does tell you a bit about Stan's condition, though. If I collect well-loved cards, but want to upgrade one of them... well, that means Stan is in baaaaad shape!

lahmejoon

Wow, thanks, guys for your responses.

Aside from the fact that the colors are awesome, the smaller size of the set was appealing to me. I could never hope to build a high grade set, so I'm going to initially just looks for cards that present nicely (avoiding torn, nasty creases, and water damage or discoloration), not caring about corners or edges. I definitely want to avoid trimmed cards.

I'm starting out focusing on lots. The thing that got me thinking about fakes were some of the single cards up on eBay for minor stars or stars. There didn't appear to be any tell tale signs of distinguishing a fake, other than if it looks too good, it probably is.

So it sounds like the general rule of thumb is to avoid cards that have nice white borders, very distinct borders, sharp edges, and lack of the aging look on the back of the cards, if they even provide a scan of the back of the cards.

originalisbest

I too love collecting this set, and wish you well! Once you have a few genuine cards in hand, I think you'll gain confidence in being able to tell real from reprint easily in online scans, certainly if looking in person. Depending on how picky you are about centering, you'll be in for quite a challenge!

Rather than learn hard lessons (if at all possible) with raw cards, see about picking up a few mid-grade PSA or SGC commons, just to get a feel for what the real ones look like. Crack them out to enjoy them raw, or leave them be in their holders. Either way you'll be off to a good start.

KbKards

Do you have item numbers from a couple different seller's reprint listings where you can't tell real from fake? I can't imagine there being anything remotely close looking to an original especially getting down to the back. It will probably help telling you what to look for if we know what's confusing you.

lahmejoon

Hi All,

I've been able to add a few cards - I'm up to about 30 cards. Grade I'm focusing on is VG to EX. In light of the discussion about fakes, trimming, etc, I present the following auction:

1953 Bowman Lot

I would be interested in thoughts on this auction. Many star cards are being offered. The edges look really sharp. However, when you compare a few of the cards, some seem slightly shorter than the one next to it (Spahn, possibly Hank Bauer). It could be the way the cards are laid out on the scan. The backs look good.

I would suspect the wise thing to do would be to pass on this. It seems too good to be true for a variety of reasons. What do you think?

Thanks!

53BKid

The cards are sharp, but take a good look at the centering of the #53 Rice card. It has a fine line boarder at the card's bottom, and a very broad top boarder. Same left right. This card is as it should be, and is typical of centering found on many of the high numbers. Personally, I'd be confident this card wasn't tampered with. Cards such as #84 Bauer, 129 Meyers, for example, look nice but I'd question the how they're centered. I'd say, there's a pronounced inconsistency.

I'd also compare the 99 Spahn against the 63 McDougald, particularly the difference in top boarders, and measurement.

I don't want to put anyone's lot down, but this is worthwhile for discussion.

lahmejoon

Agreed. I don't want to bash someone else's auction either, but in terms of trying to assess whether or not there may be issues with a few cards is important.

To clarify what you were alluding to on the Bauer and Meyers, the top border of each card appear to be similar width, so the expectation would be the bottom should also be similar, which they are not.

detroitfan2

I think it *might* be telling to see where this auction ends price-wise and then go back and compare that price to the sum of the VCP values for the cards in your target condition (i.e. PSA 4 or PSA 5). I could be very wrong, but I don't think the difference will be significant, which brings me to my point:

For my money, the best way to go when collecting mid grade 1950's sets is PSA graded 4/5/6 (your preference), and the 1953 Bowman Color is a great example of this. You eliminate the authenticity / altering guess work, and at any given point in time, you have a set or partial set that is liquid at what you have invested in the set without the next buyer having the same authenticity / altering questions that they would have if your set was raw.

And finally, the cost difference is not what you may think, what most dealers would call "near mint" or even better when it comes to vintage are really PSA 6 and perhaps even PSA 5 quality. In other words, I've seen plenty of vintage raw cards sell for more than their PSA 6 counterparts, and those raw cards would grade no better than PSA 6. Same holds for "excellent" raw cards and PSA 3/4.

Not sure if what I'm saying makes sense . . .

Griffins

Originally posted by: detroitfan2


And finally, the cost difference is not what you may think, what most dealers would call "near mint" or even better when it comes to vintage are really PSA 6 and perhaps even PSA 5 quality. In other words, I've seen plenty of vintage raw cards sell for more than their PSA 6 counterparts, and those raw cards would grade no better than PSA 6. Same holds for "excellent" raw cards and PSA 3/4.

Not sure if what I'm saying makes sense . . .

Makes perfect sense to me- I've found the best way to collect a raw set is to buy graded cards- there is a lot of optimism involved in raw grading that tends to make them overpriced- the best deals can be had when the reality of grading puts them in a mid grade holder. Easy to crack out and slip in binder pages.

lahmejoon

That does make sense. People do tend to wear rose colored glasses when it comes to condition (at least when it comes to their own cards).

I definitely prefer raw, but have made the decision that I would buy the big cards in the set graded so that I didn't have to worry about the authenticity issue. I'm in the 3/4/5 range, but not discounting a 2 - I picked up the Pee Wee Reese card in a 2. There's a crease that you can see easily on the back of the card, but is not presentable on the front unless you look closer at the card. I'd be happy with 2's like this.

53BKid

While you're apt to find some moderate sized lots of PSA graded '53 Bowman's on ebay or at auction houses, typically, they come along a lot less frequently than decent sized lots of raw cards of similar conditions.

Recently on eBay, there have been blocks of PSA 3s and 4s grouped together, a group of PSA 6s, etc., but that's about it. Compare this with dozens and dozens of raw lots.

There are a lot of decent sellers out there who are totally willing to stand beside their offerings as authentic and non tampered, who promptly provide refunds without questions.

I wouldn't be discouraged about purchasing blocks of raw '53's. That's how I built most of my '53 sets. For me, I like purchasing lots that are consistent in their grade. I have a price point in mind that I'll pay for a lot, say, $3, 4 or 5 a card for pretty nice low # commons, $8-12 for semi-high and high numbers, and I'll look closely at the star cards and add that to the total and then bid accordingly.

Typically, you're not going to find super sharp cards mixed into VG/EX lots anymore, though that used to happen fairly often. But building a consistent mid grade set is still possible. I recommend starting with the keys, as there's a massive amount of ungraded commons out there as dealers and collectors are more likely to grade lower graded stars.

Best of luck lahmejoon!

lahmejoon

Originally posted by: lahmejoon
Hi All,

I've been able to add a few cards - I'm up to about 30 cards. Grade I'm focusing on is VG to EX. In light of the discussion about fakes, trimming, etc, I present the following auction:

1953 Bowman Lot

I would be interested in thoughts on this auction. Many star cards are being offered. The edges look really sharp. However, when you compare a few of the cards, some seem slightly shorter than the one next to it (Spahn, possibly Hank Bauer). It could be the way the cards are laid out on the scan. The backs look good.

I would suspect the wise thing to do would be to pass on this. It seems too good to be true for a variety of reasons. What do you think?

Thanks!

The auction referenced above ended at $460, which seems pretty strong for a raw lot with the uncertainties it had, but I'm a rookie with this set.

detroitfan2

Originally posted by: lahmejoon

Originally posted by: lahmejoon
Hi All,

I've been able to add a few cards - I'm up to about 30 cards. Grade I'm focusing on is VG to EX. In light of the discussion about fakes, trimming, etc, I present the following auction:

1953 Bowman Lot

I would be interested in thoughts on this auction. Many star cards are being offered. The edges look really sharp. However, when you compare a few of the cards, some seem slightly shorter than the one next to it (Spahn, possibly Hank Bauer). It could be the way the cards are laid out on the scan. The backs look good.

I would suspect the wise thing to do would be to pass on this. It seems too good to be true for a variety of reasons. What do you think?

Thanks!

The auction referenced above ended at $460, which seems pretty strong for a raw lot with the uncertainties it had, but I'm a rookie with this set.

I think this more or less proves the point. I was curious, so I searched ebay completed auctions first for the cards in the lot in PSA 4/5/6. I was able to find all cards but 3, so I searched for those in the buy-it-now section. This is what I found:

#1 DAVEY WILLIAMS $8.61 PSA 4
#18 NELSON FOX $23.27 PSA 5
#53 DEL RICE $20.00 PSA 6
#63 GIL McDOUGAL $20.97 PSA 4
#68 ALLIE REYNOLDS $40.00 PSA 6
#78 CARL FURILLO $12.80 PSA 4
#80 RALPH KINER $41.00 PSA 6
#84 HANK BAUER $46.64 PSA 6
#97 EDDIE MATTHEWS $122.48 PSA 6
#99 WARREN SPAHN $72.00 PSA 4
#129 RUSS MAYER $17.50 PSA 4
#135 BOBBY MORGAN $25.00 PSA 4
#140 ALPHA BRAZLE $5.50 PSA 5
#145 GEORGE SHUBA $20.00 PSA 5

The grand total was $475.77, and again that includes 5 cards in PSA 6 that you could get for less in PSA 4 or 5, and it also includes current buy-it-now prices, with patience you can do much better than that. Just my 2 cents . . .

lahmejoon

Thanks a bunch for the research. It would seem the best way to go would be to patiently buy graded to assure you're not getting trimmed cards. The Davey Williams you referenced above seems really cheap, considering its card #1 and prone to ugly creases.