The Clemente RC Surge Continues...

70ToppsFanatic

The Clemente PSA 8 RC over at Goodwin is now at $146k (including premium).

That puts the averag'e of the last six PSA 8s (including this one) now at $92k! And the two
recent PSA 7 sales (25K and 31K) have the avergaae at $28k.

Post this year's National I doubt we're likely to see a Clemente PSA 8 ever being less than 6 figures again.

Dpeck100

That is awesome!!!

You must be loving this!

garnettstyle

I sold my 7 for less than 2 grand in 2009. What a mistake

craig44

This is fun to watch.

KendallCat

The Clemente and Aaron surges make sense due to their historical significance, and if well centered worth the money - finding an Aaron centered is a real accomplishment. Some of the other prices lately make you scratch your head. Ryan rookie has been a $3500-4000 card, and one sells for $8k recently. Now eBay is littered with Ryan 8's for $12-16k. 1968 Mantle has been a $450-500 card and even down to $425, and now they are going for $650-775 and very plentiful.

I know the Clemente sales and Aaron's are real, but I do wonder like it was stated a few weeks back on cards like the Jordan rookie and others if prices are not being manipulated. Say I have a dozen Seaver rookies in my inventory in PSA 8, and I have a willing accomplice(s) to help drive the price up. I "list" one for sale and the two of them(buddies) bid it up to $3500-4000. They win it and it shows on VCP as a sale for $4000 when all othern sales go for $1600-1800. If done a couple more times with different people at those prices we have essentially set and changed the price for the card. Now a few weeks later a few real Seavers are listed with friends to help the price along. If the price is not right others bid it up to the proper level. Wonder how much of this is really going today.

pdub1819

I've been looking to purchase a 65 Clemente PSA 8 and it seems that recently the price has skyrocketed. It used to be below $400 and now it's hovering around $800! Yikes!

emar

Another PSA 6 sells for $5100
Text

Last year's average was $2500.

Kendall,
I've wondered the same thing...a pump & dump scheme?
It has become too wide spread. My opinion is new money is pouring into the market. Heavy hitters. Possibly creating bubble status on the higher population cards. I believe we are seeing the new norm on high quality, low pop, blue chip HOF players.

KendallCat

There is real demand for cards - no question about it. Could be other stuff going on where people are trying to acquire cards before they get too expensive, and in doing so they are moving into cards that prior to 6 months ago were not as much in demand. There is also the stock market which has been flat which makes some diversify and pick up items like cards, paintings, cars...

I have also heard of the bond issue regarding pensions down in Puerto Rico, and many have been acquiring Clemente cards. Prices will continue to climb with new money entering the hobby, but it will also drive some out - similar thing happened with NASCAR. I always believe collect what you like because you enjoyed it as a kid and it brings good memories. If you collect for $$ only that is not collecting - it is investing and nothing wrong with it. Just diversify to cover downturns in the economy and hobby when they happen.

Lefthander

Originally posted by: KendallCat

I know the Clemente sales and Aaron's are real, but I do wonder like it was stated a few weeks back on cards like the Jordan rookie and others if prices are not being manipulated. Say I have a dozen Seaver rookies in my inventory in PSA 8, and I have a willing accomplice(s) to help drive the price up. I "list" one for sale and the two of them(buddies) bid it up to $3500-4000. They win it and it shows on VCP as a sale for $4000 when all othern sales go for $1600-1800. If done a couple more times with different people at those prices we have essentially set and changed the price for the card. Now a few weeks later a few real Seavers are listed with friends to help the price along. If the price is not right others bid it up to the proper level. Wonder how much of this is really going today.

I think that there's a lot of manipulation going on with auctions. It takes only two or three people working in unison to manipulate the card market. When the bubble bursts, some people are going to be hurt badly... and it won't be the manipulators.

georgebailey2

Originally posted by: Lefthander

Originally posted by: KendallCat

I know the Clemente sales and Aaron's are real, but I do wonder like it was stated a few weeks back on cards like the Jordan rookie and others if prices are not being manipulated. Say I have a dozen Seaver rookies in my inventory in PSA 8, and I have a willing accomplice(s) to help drive the price up. I "list" one for sale and the two of them(buddies) bid it up to $3500-4000. They win it and it shows on VCP as a sale for $4000 when all othern sales go for $1600-1800. If done a couple more times with different people at those prices we have essentially set and changed the price for the card. Now a few weeks later a few real Seavers are listed with friends to help the price along. If the price is not right others bid it up to the proper level. Wonder how much of this is really going today.

I think that there's a lot of manipulation going on with auctions. It takes only two or three people working in unison to manipulate the card market. When the bubble bursts, some people are going to be hurt badly... and it won't be the manipulators.

Could be.

This type of activity would suggest that (manipulation, that is); or,
quite a few new entrants into the card market; or
new entrants combined with dealer(s) deciding it would be a good time to build inventory.

I doubt that many of these prices are being paid by traditional buy/hold/enjoy collectors aside from a few that may have just recently developed the resources for such purchases and concluding prices are going to continue going up.

Unless the new entrants are buying to keep and enjoy, I would guess that many of these cards being bought now will be back on the market in within the next 12 to 18 months if not sooner. If there are not enough new investors jumping in at that point, then we may see some decline. That said, over time, prices on these types of cards should continue a decent upward trend as core demand will typically be higher than the supply,

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1980scollector

My belief is you should sell if you have some of these key cards that doubled or more in a 12 month period. In a few years, my belief is you will find the exact card for less. The only exception would be cards that have a very low pop count(10 or less).

PWCC is selling my BGS MJ 9.5 in the upcoming auction. Something just feels off and after some serious though I prefer pick up an 8 or 9 down the road.

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KendallCat

I was looking at Jordan 1988 PSA 9 pricing info this am on VCP, and this card has gone from $60 to $190-225 in one year. This is not a rare card and is obviously being pulled up by the rookie card. Curious to see prices at the National and if Jordan rookies will go for $7-8k. If so I think people will either buy lower grades or pass altogether. If prices become too high people will get out and fewer buyers means prices will come down.

LuvOldPacks

I heard, from a VERY reliable source - I'd tell you whom, but then I'd have to come by your house and OPEN all of your packs.... OUCH! - anyway, there is new blood, with BIG BUCKS who recently entered OUR market and causing quite the stir as we've ALL seen with those crazy prices cards are selling for.... Word on the street (and all over social media) is, these are foreigners, uh... not from the good ole U S of A, looking for a way to invest (hide) large sums of money, in a very lucrative market, from the prying eyes of their governments. Hey, it totally makes sense.... look at the vintage card and pack market... it rarely goes anywhere but UP!!! Check the trend of prices for the past 30 years.... you rarely find a vintage (pre 70's) pack or high end rookie card go down in price. So, why not invest??? These guys are changing card values as we knew them.... problem is, will our limited market be able to sustain them? It could be a good thing, but may be a short term thing and THAT could come back and bite us ALL in the asssssss..... Just my two cents.... (or $20 if 'those guys' invest in my opinion)

garnettstyle

What country?

PSASAP

The theory that the new influx of money is coming from foreign countries by individuals looking to hide assets makes plenty of sense. Cards are one of the least accounted for high end items you can own, with virtually no paper trail. Anything else you buy, from luxury cars to jewelry to stocks, comes with receipts and documentation. Plus the fact that the cards started out with an original cost of pennies, and it is truly a hobby that anyone and everyone can enter.

KendallCat

I have heard the pension issue in Puerto Rico with their bonds is causing some to invest in cards (Clemente - ahem) and other players and cards. I could understand if it was a few players with limited pop numbers, but in a case like a Jordan rookie, second year, or 3rd year card what has caused them to double/triple/quadruple? He has not set any milestones, has not passed away, nor anything else that would cause the rise. The Ryan rookie in an 8 was a $3500 card all day for years and now you see people listing them for $11k, $16k... because one sold for $8k.

travis t

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out that there are some extremely wealthy current or former professional athletes playing this market, too. Aside from the well-known investors in the sports world, there must be plenty who choose also to remain anonymous.

boogielabs88

I'm new to posting on the forum so my thoughts/opinion on the rise in values probably doest mean much if anything. Heres my take. I agree with a lot of what previous posters have said above. I do think, and have read many times on these boards, that there are a ton of clowns like myself who used to collect as kids and are just coming into their higher income producing years. Myself for example, am early 40's, don't want all my money in stocks nor do i trust the market and am looking to diversify a percentage of my savings and future earnings (hopefully) into alternative investments. I looked at art, wine, coins, etc etc and the only thing I knew a thing about was sports cards. And I enjoyed it, could be active in it, and it was tangible, I could own a card and hold it. Only reason i even thought about cards again was because a few of my friends and a few coworkers had started collecting/investing again. The first thing all of learned when we got back into the hobby was that all of our cards, late 80's early 90's were complete crap and events best eyeball grades were worthless in todays market, not to mention the billions printed starting then. I personally decided I wanted the best/rarest/highest grade cards i could, low pop/high quality stuff. I think some people underestimate this group of high paying suckers like myself. With my luck even the best cards/rarest could go down substantially after I make my big purchases, but wouldn't be any different than the market over the last 20 years, and I actually have something tangible. On another note, I've turned into a little kid again and I am having a blast trying to find raw cards and looking to build sets etc. So damn addicting. My two cents, flame away.



Oh and lots of people I've talked to over the last year, some friends, some people I've met in the hobby and some randoms are doing the same, be it football cards, hockey, baskets, sports memorabilia, etc.

emar

boogielabs,

Welcome!
Your thoughts matter. That's what make the boards more interesting.

Your assumption of the recent market activity are close to my opinion as well.
The 40-somethings (such as myself) are re-visiting the hobby & collecting the high-end cards that they dreamed about owning as a kid.

Throw in a couple Pro athletes, foreign investors, high dollar earners, and you have a market boom. How long will it last?
I'm not selling, The chase for me has been 8 years long so far.

GL with your chase!
Erick

mb2005

Maybe Dmitri Young is back in....

VictorLaszlo

The big surge needs to trickle down a little more for me to Bossy, Drexler, Rickey Henderson, Patrick Roy etc rc's.

jsanz

You could put big $$$ in cards and move it around much more easily than if it was in actual cash bills. They are pretty liquid and there are many dealers who still deal in cash. It's a good way to launder money or make money tax free. Just my theory.

I recently moved some funds (not cash bills) around between banks and I received phone calls from the banks so fast. They watch everything and probably report it to the government too.

70ToppsFanatic

And now a PSA 8 on eBay already over $90k.

Recent avg (including Goodwin that is still a few days away from close) is $92k.

By National we won't see one under 6 figures again.