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Bird/Magic/Erving PSA 9?

I know you only have 2-dimensions to work with, but assuming no "unseen" defects, can anyone tell me why this isn't in a PSA 10 holder?

I submitted this last week with comments asking for notation if it didn't bump. Just got it back in the same grade with nothing to show for my $85.

Btw, the little bit of "snow" that does appear (back of wright's head, bird's shorts, next to magic's elbow are all artifacts from scanner)

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Comments

  • addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd say trying to get a 40k card at a super express level is your first problem.
  • bobmoatbobmoat Posts: 257 ✭✭
    Top to bottom centering
  • addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: bobmoat
    Top to bottom centering




    +1
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 636 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: addicted2ebay
    I'd say trying to get a 40k card at a super express level is your first problem.


    Not that it should make any difference (it REALLY shouldn't right?), the card was actually submitted under the proper service level given its current grade and value. If I submitted every card for review under the service level for which my "expectation" of what it may bump to stood, then boy, I'd be down so much money I'd probably never had this card to begin with.
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 636 ✭✭✭
    Perhaps my measurement is off, but I got 58/42 at its worst.
  • addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Dragnet
    Originally posted by: addicted2ebay
    I'd say trying to get a 40k card at a super express level is your first problem.


    Not that it should make any difference (it REALLY shouldn't right?), the card was actually submitted under the proper service level given its current grade and value. If I submitted every card for review under the service level for which my "expectation" of what it may bump to stood, then boy, well I'd probably be able to pay for another one of these PSA 9s!


    It can't hurt when trying to get a $39,000 bump to pay a extra $600 to the company your sending it to. It might not matter but if a grader is on the fence? Just my 2 cents.
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 636 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: addicted2ebay
    Originally posted by: Dragnet
    Originally posted by: addicted2ebay
    I'd say trying to get a 40k card at a super express level is your first problem.


    Not that it should make any difference (it REALLY shouldn't right?), the card was actually submitted under the proper service level given its current grade and value. If I submitted every card for review under the service level for which my "expectation" of what it may bump to stood, then boy, well I'd probably be able to pay for another one of these PSA 9s!


    It can't hurt when trying to get a $39,000 bump to pay a extra $600 to the company your sending it to. It might not matter but if a grader is on the fence? Just my 2 cents.


    I would agree, be it not for the fact that the $600 is lost if returned in the same holder. I am pretty confident this card deserves a PSA 10, but to think I have to put up $600, on the potential whims of an unhappy or disgruntled grader leaves me wondering what exactly I am paying for.
  • addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭✭
    It's a beauty... I've heard stories of 2 or 3 reviews before a bump happend.
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 636 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: addicted2ebay
    It's a beauty... I've heard stories of 2 or 3 reviews before a bump happend.


    appreciate it, will certainly try again. Don't think I'll be paying $700 though.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From my understanding, service level is for declared value and insurance purposes only. PSA has stated the grader has no idea what service level a card was submitted under.



    Beautiful card, Josh!


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: bobmoat
    Top to bottom centering


    Bingo
    image


  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Worth sending it in a couple more times. Problem, though, I think that card will see the top grader's eyes each time, and likely Joe Orlando's as well. Once they've made a decision on it, there's no point in sending it to the same guys to look at.



    Beautiful card and worthy of a 10 IMO. If you can't get it bumped, and are looking to sell, I'd attach a premium to it.



    Best of luck and keep us updated!
  • cardcountrycardcountry Posts: 571 ✭✭✭
    Top/Bottom centering as others have said. Nice card though!

    Jeff
    Jeff Foy/Dave Foy
    Card Country
    Graded stars 1950's-1980
  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: bobmoat

    Top to bottom centering




    image
  • baz518baz518 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd agree with top/bottom keeps it from 10... but imo, you'd have to crack and resub to have a chance. Which I couldn't risk, very nice card though.
  • vols1vols1 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭
    I don't think there is any chance of bump unless you take it out of the holder. They need to fully see the card in order to evaluate it fairly and they can't do that under light with the glare of the case.
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭
    I highly doubt Joe Orlando is seeing cards and reviewing them before they are graded/bumped
  • DragnetDragnet Posts: 636 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the input -- certainly appears that T/B centering is the consensus. While I do agree it is off, my measurements indicate it is still within the parameters for a 10. Just for fun, I thought I'd do a comparison with the meager 6 PSA 10 copies I've managed to find photos of. Without measuring, aside from the 3rd one (which also has T/B issues btw), all of these look very similar as T/B centering goes. Am I wrong?

    image


    image


    image


    image


    image


    image
  • mb2005mb2005 Posts: 165 ✭✭
    Many people have seen cards in a holder that as good, or better, than higher grade ones. The real reason it didn't get a 10 is because card grading is subjective.
  • bobmoatbobmoat Posts: 257 ✭✭
    its harder to bump than get a grade when raw



    its like a larry the cable guy sketch...



    "if you have to use an electronic centering tool to figure out if the card is within the guidelines for a 10.... you're probably a redneck ......errrrr.... probably not getting a bump"



    same with:



    "does that corner look touched?"



    "is that too much PD?"



    "think that counts as chipping?"



    the answer doesn't have to be yes. the question means "no 10 for you".
  • TerwinTerwin Posts: 70 ✭✭

    I have one almost identical...I've sent it in twice and got "top to bottom centering" each time. I think yours was close as they took it out of the holder to look at it as is evidenced by the new holder with number on back. The same guy (head grader) looks at all reviews so it's unlikely if you send it in right away. Maybe wait a few months. I disagree with the "send them $600 and you'll get your bump" theory. My experience has been that whatever level you send it in, if you deserve the grade, you get it. That is why there are so few PSA 10's on this particular card...in order for it to be centered T/B you usually have that small print line on the bottom right. Good luck.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    I concur that t-b centering will prevent it from bumping to a 10.

    PSA will contact a submitter for additional funds if a card bumps to a higher grade that puts it in a higher price bracket.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
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