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Can you spot the errors on these NBN proofs?

While transcribing the Smithsonian certified proof collection, I came across an error -- posted in the "NBN curiosity" thread. I shared the image with Peter Huntoon who hadn't noticed it although he's gone this entire collection by hand (twice!).

Peter was kind enough to direct me to a number of other errors he noticed during his research. I've gone back and taken screen shots of these proofs. Let's see if our sharp-eyed forum members can identify what's wrong with the pictures. Some are obvious, but there's a fine line in determining a couple as errors. If you catch them all you'll be doing better than the BEP inspectors from the era!

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Intrigued by all things intaglio.

Comments

  • 2ndCharter2ndCharter Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I'll start with a few of them - the Lancaster proof is missing the signature and title of the Register while one of the charter numbers in the bottom margin of the Smyrna proof is incorrect (one number is inverted). Also, the Des Moines proof is missing its plate date.

    Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA

  • gsalexgsalex Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
    Good eyes! I wasn't sure anyone would catch the Smyrna error.
    Intrigued by all things intaglio.
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭
    Plymouth has "of of" (as in "national bank of of Plymouth)," Towanda missing sig lines for bank officers, Finley has an extra marginal charter number at lower left.



    edited to clean up "corrections" by my phone.
    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭
    I'm looking at these on my phone so not sure I'm seeing everything but the York 20 has really sloppy lower corners esp at the right but not sure that's what you were looking at.



    I think I've seen the Plymouth, or one like it, and the Smyrna published before but it's been a while so this was an interesting refresher.
    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • The Farmers notes have no city and date entries.
    The Citizens have Wyman's signature trespassing into other engraving.


    Oops! Just noticed the city and date are there on the York note but high up. Is that it?
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭
    FWIW I finally got around to looking thru the pictured original and 1875 $10 and $20s for PA on the nbncensus and noticed that, except for York, the others all used the abbreviation Pa rather than Penn on the script city line. Nothing else is obviously amiss (to me) compared to other first charters. Maybe I need to rummage around a bit more.



    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • gsalexgsalex Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
    You got all of them except the York -- which is the most obvious. What are the lines?
    Intrigued by all things intaglio.
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: gsalex

    You got all of them except the York -- which is the most obvious. What are the lines?




    They just look like pen marks on my phone, but are they cracks in the plate? I did see that the red note at the bottom is an order for a new plate.

    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭
    Just to get a bit wonky here, what is especially interesting is that there are 4 1875 3x10-20 proof/specimens in the collection for the York bank. Only one is dated, but it is possible to put them in sequence:



    #1 A-B-C-A (id # NU*297219.034401)

    ABNC logo



    #2 as above (id # NU*297219.034402)

    ABNC logo

    initials have been added at UL along with the charter number at lower left center.

    this is the sheet you pictured with the lines. Also evidences some wear, for instance the 5 in the 1875 date



    #3 D-E-F-B (id # NU*297219.034403)

    "Approved" July-17-1885

    still has ABNC logo at the bottom



    #4 D-E-F-B (id # NU*297219.034404)

    only has the BEP logo at the bottom.



    Now there are only 2 1875 pix of these notes in the NBN census: a $10 from plate E, bank # 1892 (K57xxx) and a $20 from plate B, bank serial 3910 (K404xxx). Both have treasury serials in the K blocks which per Huntoon was used between March 1885 and July 1901 (it is possible to narrow down the printings, but one needs to go thru the bond and currency ledgers at NARA which is a pretty time consuming task and you have to use on site). Now what really blows your mind is that the 10 is associated with #3 (ABNC logo) while the $20 is from #4 (BEP logo only). That is, two different plates, but with identical plate numbers, were used to print the 1875 $10 and $20 notes for the bank after 1885.



    Similarly, there are two proofs for the $5s A to D has the CBNC logo, E to H does not. There is a single $5 with an image in the nbncensus plate E (BEP only) with a treasury serial from the Z block (Z953xxx). Given the number it's likely the note was printed in the early 1890s.



    What fun!

















    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • gsalexgsalex Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: STLNATS
    Originally posted by: gsalex
    You got all of them except the York -- which is the most obvious. What are the lines?


    They just look like pen marks on my phone, but are they cracks in the plate? I did see that the red note at the bottom is an order for a new plate.


    Correct! They are plate cracks. The one on the $20 is the worst I've seen -- the plate almost broke apart.
    Intrigued by all things intaglio.
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭
    They are plate cracks. The one on the $20 is the worst I've seen -- the plate almost broke apart.



    Sorry to parse words but not really an error, which I was looking for, rather a failure of the plate itself. I wonder if the proof you originally posted was used as evidence/justification for the new plate (D-E-F-B) somehow. Unfortunately none of the notes printed from the first plate have been reported but it would have been interesting to see how long the plate was used before it was pulled out of production - that is whether any evidence of the cracks appeared on the notes themselves. I've heard of this on stamps and seen/own progressive die cracks on the 18/19th century restrike papal medals I collect.



    Also would be interesting to understand why the 3rd proof (in my previous post) was approved/certified but the 4th was not.



    What fun.





    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • gsalexgsalex Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: STLNATS
    ...Now what really blows your mind is that the 10 is associated with #3 (ABNC logo) while the $20 is from #4 (BEP logo only). That is, two different plates, but with identical plate numbers, were used to print the 1875 $10 and $20 notes for the bank after 1885.


    So I had to give those proofs a careful review to understand what you meant. The one thing that confuses me is that both plates #3 and #4 have Allison/New signatures. New was only Treasurer from June 30, 1875 to July 1, 1876. Wouldn't the signatures have been changed by the time the BEP logo was swapped out?

    Edit: Perhaps this is why #4 was not approved.
    Intrigued by all things intaglio.
  • gsalexgsalex Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
    And for the record, here are the errors identified with some close-ups:

    Old Colony National Bank of Plymouth PA ch. 996 - Additional "OF" included under arched lettering

    Lancaster Co National Bank PA ch. 683 - missing signature of JW Lyons, Register of Treasury on A plate
    image

    Iowa National Bank of Des Moines IA ch. 2307 - missing plate date (this is absent on all four notes)

    Fruit Growers National Bank of Smyrna DE ch. 2336 - Incorrect plate number (2339) used in lower left position of $10 on C plate.
    image

    Farmers National Bank of York PA ch. 2228 - large plate cracks in $10 and $20

    First National Bank of Finley ND ch. 7324 - charter number accidentally imprinted in wrong position on plate
    image

    Citizen National Bank of Towanda PA ch. 2337 - missing ruled lines for President and Cashier signatures
    image


    Intrigued by all things intaglio.
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭
    The one thing that confuses me is that both plates #3 and #4 have Allison/New signatures. New was only Treasurer from June 30, 1875 to July 1, 1876. Wouldn't the signatures have been changed by the time the BEP logo was swapped out?



    No



    Edit: Perhaps this is why #4 was not approved.



    My wording was inexact in my earlier post. #4 did not receive the same approval marks as #3 but that doesn't mean the change/new plate was not approved. After all one of the surviving notes (the 20) has the format used on #4 and it's a fairly late printing when the production conventions had pretty much settled down.



    And my point was: That is, two different plates, but with identical plate letters, were used to print the 1875 $10 and $20 notes for the bank after 1885. I don't know if they just altered the plate to remove the NBNC logo or produced an entirely new plate with the same letters as "#3."



    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • gsalexgsalex Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
    What would have been the appropriate plate letters for the new plate without the NBNC imprint? Could there have been an ABCA transitional plate that's missing? I wonder how you would solve this mystery at this point.

    Here is one more error that I didn't include earlier. It was caught and marked, so too obvious to make anyone think. The plate letter on the $20 (A) is missing in the upper right.

    image
    Intrigued by all things intaglio.
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