Boggs vs Gwynn.
craig44
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So to follow up on boggs vs Jeter, there was some interest in boggs vs. Gwynn as they were perfect contemporaries. So who do you have??
As for me, it is all boggs. He was an on base machine, hit a ton of doubles and perhaps most importantly, he played a much more difficult position. He ended up over 20 war higher than gwynn.
As for me, it is all boggs. He was an on base machine, hit a ton of doubles and perhaps most importantly, he played a much more difficult position. He ended up over 20 war higher than gwynn.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
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George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
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Boggs also averaged 10 extra game played per season, if you take out the partial bookend seasons of their careers. That's not an argument either way. I think that if you surveyed 100 people about this question, you'd have 50 on one side and 50 on the other.
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George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I checked baseball reference right after I posted that lol and figured I'd get called on the Gwynn late power. Good call. I can see that. Isn't it sad that we question every little blip in great career's now. Boggs career progression does resemble the norm where as Gwynn's has greatness a little drop then greatness at a slightly higher level again. Who knows. I loved both these guys and let's face it they where and are a lost breed. No one in today's game hits like these guys did and I don't think guys even try to anymore.
Couldn't Gwynn's late power be contributed to his added weight at the end of his career?
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Used to be a lot more of them than there are now.
Boggs could drink a lot more beer than Gwynn
in a beer drinking contest??? Boggs
in a pornstache contest??? Boggs
These are the only criteria that interest me....sorry
At least you stay consistent, even 6 years later.
Stay thirsty my friend
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He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
Gwynn had no late career power surge that runs any red flags up a pole either.
There are more red flags associated with at least one of the players mentioned in the sig lines of this thread than either of subjects of this thread.
Well, it better not be Gene Tenace, or Dallasactuary will throw a fit.lol.
There are more red flags associated with at least one of the players mentioned in the sig lines of this thread than either of subjects of this thread.
Well, it better not be Gene Tenace, or Dallasactuary will throw a fit.lol.
Nope, not him. In the same way many purists still say Hank is the all-time HR leader, a case could be made for the Big Unit being the SO leader, but these are really discussions for the Sports Talk forum until someone starts posting cards.
I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Boggs was a Devil Ray. Gwynn was not.
Very close call, but I'm leaning Gwynn. Pretty special that these guys played in the same era.
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George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
And to what do you attribute his late career batting averages pclpads? Whoppers and big macs? Talking with ted williams? Even talking with ted won't turn back time and quicken that bat. But I know something that could....
I still think you are fishing. If I was a betting man I would bet there is a greater chance that Wade took PEDs vs Tony taking them. I would like to add I don't think either player took them and even if they did it wouldn't change my opinion very much of either one.
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And to what do you attribute his late career batting averages pclpads? Whoppers and big macs? Talking with ted williams? Even talking with ted won't turn back time and quicken that bat. But I know something that could....
How about a passionate desire to improve himself as a hitter?
Time and experience sometimes trump youthful athleticism.
And I don't think PEDs' would improve his hand eye coordination,
which is why he was such a high average hitter.
Boggs could drink a lot more beer than Gwynn
And probably could eat more chicken, too
... but the statistics don't lie. ...
Quite the contrary! Statistics were made for lying and then proving that the lie was a lie.
"Correlation does not imply causation."
That's true, but I'm just light-hardheadedly playing around. His surge in HRs that late in his career
are skeptical and reason to speculate that PEDs may have been a factor. His weight gain may have been too, or maybe he knew that he couldn't hit it in that 5-6 hole as much and decided to try for more power than finesse. Who knows.
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I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
Statistically, YES!
Two-sample T for Young_Gwynn vs Old_Gwynn
......................N Mean StDev SE Mean
Young_Gwynn 13 6.77 3.24 0.90
Old_Gwynn 3 14.33 3.79 2.2
Difference = mean(Young_Gwynn) - mean (Old_Gwynn)
Estimate for difference: -7.56
95% upper bound for difference: -0.66
T-Value = -3.20 P-Value = 0.043 DF = 2
P-value is 0.043!!!!!!! This "surge" is not by random chance.
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Regarding the doubles, remember to take a look at the triples he hit in the 80s v the 90s, too. I think a lot of 3bs turned into 2bs due to his noted weight gain.
I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
Statistically, YES!
Two-sample T for Young_Gwynn vs Old_Gwynn
......................N Mean StDev SE Mean
Young_Gwynn 13 6.77 3.24 0.90
Old_Gwynn 3 14.33 3.79 2.2
Difference = mean(Young_Gwynn) - mean (Old_Gwynn)
Estimate for difference: -7.56
95% upper bound for difference: -0.66
T-Value = -3.20 P-Value = 0.043 DF = 2
P-value is 0.043!!!!!!! This "surge" is not by random chance.
Can't tell if your joking or not. Please advise.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That looks like a lot more of an anomaly than any of Gwynns' stats.
And just to be clear on where I stand, I don't think either of them took PEDs'.
I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
Statistically, YES!
Two-sample T for Young_Gwynn vs Old_Gwynn
......................N Mean StDev SE Mean
Young_Gwynn 13 6.77 3.24 0.90
Old_Gwynn 3 14.33 3.79 2.2
Difference = mean(Young_Gwynn) - mean (Old_Gwynn)
Estimate for difference: -7.56
95% upper bound for difference: -0.66
T-Value = -3.20 P-Value = 0.043 DF = 2
P-value is 0.043!!!!!!! This "surge" is not by random chance.
Can't tell if your joking or not. Please advise.
I'm not joking. Using statistics and grouping the former 13 seasons as compared to the latter 3 full seasons, there is only a 4.3% chance that the latter 3 years had a "power surge" that was by random chance. Therefore, there is a statistical difference in the last 3 seasons as compared to the former 13. What caused this is up for debate, but there is definitely a power surge, even if it is just 43 home runs over 3 seasons.
I used a pretty basic concept in statistics; a two-sample t-test.
LaJoie Portrait 3+, Cy Young Bare Hand 3+
Ty Cobb Bat Off 4+, ANY Red & Green Portrait
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Erik
I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
I don't see anything suspicious about a suspected Gwynn power surge late in his career.
He hit 14 HR early in his career in 1986 and his career high was 17 HR eleven years later.
You call that a power surge!
That's what I was thinking. Are we really calling 17, 16 and 10 HRS for that three year period a "power surge"?
Statistically, YES!
Two-sample T for Young_Gwynn vs Old_Gwynn
......................N Mean StDev SE Mean
Young_Gwynn 13 6.77 3.24 0.90
Old_Gwynn 3 14.33 3.79 2.2
Difference = mean(Young_Gwynn) - mean (Old_Gwynn)
Estimate for difference: -7.56
95% upper bound for difference: -0.66
T-Value = -3.20 P-Value = 0.043 DF = 2
P-value is 0.043!!!!!!! This "surge" is not by random chance.
Can't tell if your joking or not. Please advise.
I'm not joking. Using statistics and grouping the former 13 seasons as compared to the latter 3 full seasons, there is only a 4.3% chance that the latter 3 years had a "power surge" that was by random chance. Therefore, there is a statistical difference in the last 3 seasons as compared to the former 13. What caused this is up for debate, but there is definitely a power surge, even if it is just 43 home runs over 3 seasons.
I used a pretty basic concept in statistics; a two-sample t-test.
Is a sample size of 3 even remotely valid for statistical comparisons?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yes, I would say three seasons is statistically relevant. Considering he hit 1/3 of his career home runs in his late 30's, it seems quite suspicious don't you think??
I'm speaking for trying to use the mean and standard deviation in sample that has only 3 data points. That is statistically irrelevant.
We are also talking about the power of small numbers. When we are talking about HR figures this small any outlier is going to stand out.
And no it is not suspicious to me at all. We aren't talking about a Brady Anderson-esqe 50 HRs out of nowhere. We are talking about seasons of 17 and 16. By the way, 17 HRs was good for 92nd place on the MLB HR leaderboard.
Stop the madness.
I myself dont think he took anything. just a gut feeling but nobody can know for sure
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Pm770, you don't think a 20 year player hitting a third of his career home runs in a three year period is suspicious? As well as having a six year run of batting averages that were the best of his career well into his thirties? Maybe a bit naive.
Not when the numbers we are talking about are 43 and 135, respectively over a 20 year period.
Regarding the batting averages, he was always a high average hitter. He had 4 batting titles in each decade. All of these occurrences are very relative.
Does it not seem reasonable that someone making contact so frequently, if he was using PEDS, what have hit more than 17 HRs in his high water mark season?
Look I get it, Boggs is your guy. In regards to the original question choosing Boggs over Gywnn is a very reasonable position. But to feel the need to slander Gywnn with these "I'm not saying........I'm just saying" type of allegations is BS.
Maybe a bit naive.
In fairness, my tinfoil hat is in the shop.
Pm770, you don't think a 20 year player hitting a third of his career home runs in a three year period is suspicious? As well as having a six year run of batting averages that were the best of his career well into his thirties? Maybe a bit naive.
Did your great, great, great, great, great grandfather burn all of the witches in Salem? You sure do like witch hunts.
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