PSA grade counterfeit, SGC grade authentic???

Rocknroll · May 3, 2016 10:48AM

Has anybody ever had late 1800's / early 1900's cards come back from PSA as counterfeit, then go for a 2nd opinion from SGC, and have them grade authenticate?

I'm just getting back into the hobby after about 25 years... please pardon any noobishness. I've learned a lot in the past couple months, but I know I have a ways to go...

Thanks for any comments!

sbfinley · May 3, 2016 12:50PM

What's the card?

Rocknroll · May 3, 2016 8:38PM

I'd rather not say exactly, at this point, but there was a good variety of cards. Different players from different sets. Some cards looked obviously trimmed, but I can't believe the whole group was deemed fake.

I'm more wondering if PSA is just overly skeptical when it comes to those cards, or if SGC is maybe more experienced seeing them, and maybe has seen similar discrepancies... Idk...

3 under par · May 3, 2016 8:44PM

I'd rather the grading company be conservative and not grade if there is any doubt.

craig44 · May 3, 2016 9:15PM

I think in this example that I would side with sgc's opinion, as their expertise is in pre war.

Rocknroll · May 3, 2016 11:33PM

I'll let you know after I send them to SGC. The cards were not even close to mint, and they have a really legitimate aged look to them. I mean, if I were to counterfeit these cards, I would make them look GOOD, at least. They had stains, wear, and some obvious trimming. But genuinely looked their age.

I'm also wondering if there could just be so many unknowns about the cards from that era, that PSA just didn't want to deal with them. I've read that new variations and oddities come up every year... So PSA maybe never saw one particular characteristic, and just tossed it aside as fake, without considering other possibilities. Idk...

As a side note, I just hate how PSA never really explains what they saw in the card to justify their opinion. Those codes don't help at all.

DanBessette · May 4, 2016 12:29AM

Wait, you didn't send them to SGC? My guess is they fail there too.

Cakes · May 4, 2016 4:25AM

Originally posted by: Rocknroll
I'd rather not say exactly, at this point, but there was a good variety of cards. Different players from different sets. Some cards looked obviously trimmed, but I can't believe the whole group was deemed fake.

I'm more wondering if PSA is just overly skeptical when it comes to those cards, or if SGC is maybe more experienced seeing them, and maybe has seen similar discrepancies... Idk...

Respectfully why not tell us the cards, at least year and brand? The members could give you better advice with more information.

LarkinCollector · May 4, 2016 4:28AM

Run a black light over them in a dark room, if the white glows they're fake.

ETA: Good Article

Rocknroll · May 4, 2016 5:21AM

Okay, a few of them were from

1903 Breisch

1888 N162

1932 Bulgaria

Any ideas how to distinguish fakes in these sets? Does the black light thing work with those?

Mjohn, I thought about that after I sent them. Lol. I got too excited after finding them. The thought did cross my mind that PSA saw the whole bunch and said no friggin way and just tossed them aside.

I'd post a pic of one, but I haven't figured out how to post pics in here. Lol

LarkinCollector · May 4, 2016 5:31AM

Black light should work on all those, I'll double check on the 32 Bulgaria after work. IIRC, brighteners weren't used until sometime in the 40s.

churchiscool · May 4, 2016 8:01AM

Post scans of the e107 n n162....should be easy to tell if they are fake...but these r pretty common psa should not be confused by these.

Rocknroll · May 4, 2016 8:02AM

Thanks, Larkin. I'll get myself a blacklight and check when they come back. I got them from buying somebody's old collection. There were about 40-50 cards... Maybe 7-8 T206's, a bunch of 20's cards that are terrible condition and not that great, about 10 N162's, and a few others of various years. I'll post a pic of an Anson N162 if I can figure out how to post images... Still waiting for a bunch to post grades from PSA.

Rocknroll · May 4, 2016 9:42AM

All of the N162's are blank back, but I have seen a couple of authenticated blank backs on the market, so I thought they had a chance. Plus some of the backs are very stained with brown stuff, like they once had tobacco stuck to them... They could very well be cutouts tho.

Rocknroll · May 4, 2016 11:15PM

I may have figured out a way to link pics... Hope this works. Here is the Anson. I don't think they are cutouts because they have he cigarette border on the bottom. Didn't all of those albums have the pic of the card without the Old Judge Gypsy Queen on the bottom?

I don't have a pic of the back atm, but it's blank with staining from glue or tobacco.

http://50.6.73.68/picit/1462457159.5262.jpg

Btw, Thanks for your comments, guys. Great info at the very least.

Rocknroll · May 4, 2016 11:16PM

Also, here is one on eBay with a blank back:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/141971536833?_mwBanner=1

Rocknroll · May 4, 2016 11:31PM

I also just noticed that the card on eBay states that PSA would not assign a numerical value to a blank back card... And also see that there is no hologram in the PSA tag - how long ago did they start the holograms? So this was graded a long time ago, and perhaps PSA has changed the way they grade these and just not authenticate them at all now. So at one time it was authenticate... And now they're not???

KbKards · May 5, 2016 12:00AM

The N162 Anson you pictured is not an authentic card.

Rocknroll · May 5, 2016 2:29AM

How can you tell?

churchiscool · May 5, 2016 2:34AM

it's a horrible reprint....oven-baked to make look like it aged. the biggest red flag is the washed out colors typical of a reprint, whereas the real thing (like the brouthers you linked to) the colors are vibrant. don't waste your money with sgc

LarkinCollector · May 5, 2016 2:41AM

Originally posted by: churchiscool
...oven-baked to make look like it aged.

That was my first thought as well (after soaking it in tea), but I didn't know that issue well enough to be certain.

chipotlecowboy · May 14, 2016 4:24AM

I know/trade with someone that opened a few PSA graded packs, got a huge hit, sent it to PSA, and PSA said it was a fake. SGC didn't agree. They graded it. Not sure what next step with PSA will be in the process. Obviously, they have something they need to explain given the card came from of their graded packs to begin with.

garnettstyle · May 14, 2016 5:57AM

Originally posted by: chipotlecowboy
I know/trade with someone that opened a few PSA graded packs, got a huge hit, sent it to PSA, and PSA said it was a fake. SGC didn't agree. They graded it. Not sure what next step with PSA will be in the process. Obviously, they have something they need to explain given the card came from of their graded packs to begin with.

Lol what card did PSA claim was a fake?

BigMike79 · June 30, 2017 5:21AM

@chipotlecowboy said:
I know/trade with someone that opened a few PSA graded packs, got a huge hit, sent it to PSA, and PSA said it was a fake. SGC didn't agree. They graded it. Not sure what next step with PSA will be in the process. Obviously, they have something they need to explain given the card came from of their graded packs to begin with.

That would be infuriating. Yeah, what card was it?

HighGradeLegends · June 30, 2017 7:59AM

@BigMike79 said:

@chipotlecowboy said:
I know/trade with someone that opened a few PSA graded packs, got a huge hit, sent it to PSA, and PSA said it was a fake. SGC didn't agree. They graded it. Not sure what next step with PSA will be in the process. Obviously, they have something they need to explain given the card came from of their graded packs to begin with.

That would be infuriating. Yeah, what card was it?

Starting to wonder about all the fake news in this tread

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05) · June 30, 2017 9:02AM

@LarkinCollector said:
Run a black light over them in a dark room, if the white glows they're fake.

ETA: Good Article

I just found out 50 percent of my cards were fake !!!

PSA grade counterfeit, SGC grade authentic???

Comments