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Finally finished a set!
TwoKopeiki
Posts: 9,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
Update!!
Finally able to upgrade the 1811-HJ/TH with a problem-free example! It has a neat planchet clip, as well. Picked it up in an un-attributed NGC holder and crossed to PCGS on the second try.
====================================================
Just added a bodybagged coin to my Ferdinand VII Armored Set and I couldn't be happier. For one, it happens to be an extremely rare variety (1811 over-assayer HJ/TH), an example of which has not surfaced in quite a while. It also completes this small, 11-coin set spanning only 4 years of Ferdinand VII's rule that took me over 8 years to finish.
It's not the most expensive, highest grade, best looking set. But it's all mine
And I enjoyed hunting down each and every single one of these coins.
It all started with a golden-toned 1809-TH 8 Reales that I acquired from Bill (WWW on forums) in late 2007. It was originally in an NGC 58 holder, but had no problem crossing over to our host. Bill has a great eye for quality and i'm lucky to have a coin with his pedigree.
Not long after I saw an 1810/09 over-date for sale on eBay in an small ANACS holder that looked better than the XF45 grade on the holder. I ended-up winning it and crossing with a modest bump to AU50. This was my first variety and got me into researching over-dates and over-assayers.
Over the years, I have also added a few coins from CRO. While I may grumble about their prices, John does offer some beautiful coins. First one was a less common assayer combination for 1809 (HJ) in 2011 and a nicely toned 1808 that I think is a minor documented variety in Calbeto known as "el 8 esta roto por la base", or the broken base 8 in the date.
In early 2012 I was browsing some US dealer websites when I came one that piqued my interest. It was Craig Keplinger's site www.numiswiss.com. He has a list of coins and grades, but no pictures. He had a few slabbed 8 Reales, one of which was an unattributed 1811/0 over-date with chocolate brown patina that I ended-up buying. I only had one interaction with Craig, but he struck me as one of the nicest people I've ever dealt with.
One of the wins came in 2012 when I picked-up a raw 1809-HJ/TH over-assayer from Soler Y Llach auction house on the other side of the pond. There are only a few of these around and from what I gather, the one I have is the highest grade (AU58).
Josh from Civitas sold me the 1810-HJ/TH (also unattributed) later that year. It's a neat, late-state die with numerous die breaks and defects, but the over-assayer was clear as day.
Two heavy-hitters came from Aureo auction house in Spain. First it was the 1811-HJ/TH, the coin I just had encapsulated. It was during the time when most coins from Aureo arrived hairlined and I was starting to lose faith in them. I didn't really understand how rare this variety was until years later. The second one was the key date for the series - 1810-TH that ended-up grading AU55 and tying for the finest known.
Chronologically, the last coin I added to the set came from Goldberg about a year ago and it was an 1811-HJ. Just loved the color on it.
While complete, this set is nowhere finished. There are a few common coins I would like to eventually upgrade. Perhaps if I'm lucky I can find another, problem-free 1811 HJ/TH one of these days. But for now - i'm pretty stoked.
Thank you all for being a part of my numismatic journey so far. This forum is a great way to learn, share and meet like-minded folks.
So, here it is:
1808-TH
1809-TH
1809-HJ
1809-HJ/TH
1810/09-HJ
1810-TH
1810-HJ/TH
1810-HJ
1811/0-HJ
1811-HJ
1811-HJ/TH
Finally able to upgrade the 1811-HJ/TH with a problem-free example! It has a neat planchet clip, as well. Picked it up in an un-attributed NGC holder and crossed to PCGS on the second try.
====================================================
Just added a bodybagged coin to my Ferdinand VII Armored Set and I couldn't be happier. For one, it happens to be an extremely rare variety (1811 over-assayer HJ/TH), an example of which has not surfaced in quite a while. It also completes this small, 11-coin set spanning only 4 years of Ferdinand VII's rule that took me over 8 years to finish.
It's not the most expensive, highest grade, best looking set. But it's all mine
And I enjoyed hunting down each and every single one of these coins.It all started with a golden-toned 1809-TH 8 Reales that I acquired from Bill (WWW on forums) in late 2007. It was originally in an NGC 58 holder, but had no problem crossing over to our host. Bill has a great eye for quality and i'm lucky to have a coin with his pedigree.
Not long after I saw an 1810/09 over-date for sale on eBay in an small ANACS holder that looked better than the XF45 grade on the holder. I ended-up winning it and crossing with a modest bump to AU50. This was my first variety and got me into researching over-dates and over-assayers.
Over the years, I have also added a few coins from CRO. While I may grumble about their prices, John does offer some beautiful coins. First one was a less common assayer combination for 1809 (HJ) in 2011 and a nicely toned 1808 that I think is a minor documented variety in Calbeto known as "el 8 esta roto por la base", or the broken base 8 in the date.
In early 2012 I was browsing some US dealer websites when I came one that piqued my interest. It was Craig Keplinger's site www.numiswiss.com. He has a list of coins and grades, but no pictures. He had a few slabbed 8 Reales, one of which was an unattributed 1811/0 over-date with chocolate brown patina that I ended-up buying. I only had one interaction with Craig, but he struck me as one of the nicest people I've ever dealt with.
One of the wins came in 2012 when I picked-up a raw 1809-HJ/TH over-assayer from Soler Y Llach auction house on the other side of the pond. There are only a few of these around and from what I gather, the one I have is the highest grade (AU58).
Josh from Civitas sold me the 1810-HJ/TH (also unattributed) later that year. It's a neat, late-state die with numerous die breaks and defects, but the over-assayer was clear as day.
Two heavy-hitters came from Aureo auction house in Spain. First it was the 1811-HJ/TH, the coin I just had encapsulated. It was during the time when most coins from Aureo arrived hairlined and I was starting to lose faith in them. I didn't really understand how rare this variety was until years later. The second one was the key date for the series - 1810-TH that ended-up grading AU55 and tying for the finest known.
Chronologically, the last coin I added to the set came from Goldberg about a year ago and it was an 1811-HJ. Just loved the color on it.
While complete, this set is nowhere finished. There are a few common coins I would like to eventually upgrade. Perhaps if I'm lucky I can find another, problem-free 1811 HJ/TH one of these days. But for now - i'm pretty stoked.
Thank you all for being a part of my numismatic journey so far. This forum is a great way to learn, share and meet like-minded folks.
So, here it is:
1808-TH
1809-TH
1809-HJ
1809-HJ/TH
1810/09-HJ
1810-TH
1810-HJ/TH
1810-HJ
1811/0-HJ
1811-HJ
1811-HJ/TH
0
Comments
Steve
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
DPOTD-3
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CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Interesting to think about the political events taking place at that time. Ferdinand was not even ruling his country from 1808-1811, he was essentially under house arrest in France while Napoleon's brother was running the show in Spain. In Mexico the power vacuum caused by the European wars was giving Mexicans the confidence to revolt against the Spanish, a situation eventually leading to Mexico's independence. You wouldn't know that by the coinage, Ferdinand in his armor looks completely in control (when his situation was anything but that), but perhaps that political instability and loss of central authority contributes to the number of varieties and overstrikes in the short series? Or perhaps it's just early 19th century manufacturing at its finest, as we see with American coins.
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
You say "It's not the most expensive, highest grade, best looking set." but who else currently has a complete set of Ferdinand VII armored bust 8 reales varieties?
Jack, there are a few folks with way more experience in the series and much larger collections, but it seems most of them shy away from plastic. I know of one other collector who has all of these varieties. He has a couple of registry sets here under RFS Industries.
Congrats Roman. I heard you will be moving on to collecting Canadian Mint products now.
Thanks, Don. You almost guessed it - I'm starting a complete Canadian Tire money set
Nice set and congratulations on the accomplishment!
Interesting to think about the political events taking place at that time. Ferdinand was not even ruling his country from 1808-1811, he was essentially under house arrest in France while Napoleon's brother was running the show in Spain. In Mexico the power vacuum caused by the European wars was giving Mexicans the confidence to revolt against the Spanish, a situation eventually leading to Mexico's independence. You wouldn't know that by the coinage, Ferdinand in his armor looks completely in control (when his situation was anything but that), but perhaps that political instability and loss of central authority contributes to the number of varieties and overstrikes in the short series? Or perhaps it's just early 19th century manufacturing at its finest, as we see with American coins.
Nap - you're absolutely right. Mainland mints in Spain were already striking coins with Jose Napoleon's image, while Royalists on this side of the ocean clung to the image of Ferdinand VII. It was the beginning of the end for the Spanish colonies in Central / South America and the following years of the War of Independence in Mexico helped shape the world as we know it today.
That period was also fascinating from numismatics point of view, with what - 11 mints operating at the same time? Shipping silver from the mines to Mexico City became too dangerous and numerous provisional mints were established to make coins in order to pay for troops, provisions, etc... Without access to proper equipment and dies, local blacksmiths and die sinkers were employed resulting in some awesomely-crude designs. Not to mention all the counter-stamping by the various military commanders.
8 Reales Madness Collection
My YouTube Channel
so true!
And you can sense your feel of satisfaction in how you wrote your post.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@Nap - I think Spanish power was already on the decline ever since their Armada got defeated by the British, and thus ushering in the Golden Age of British (naval) power at the expense of the Spanish. With the devastating defeat of the Spanish fleet, that allowed the British naval and privateer fleets to raid the Spanish treasure galleons nearly at will. The continental conflicts against the Dutch, British, French and Austrian armies certainly didn't help matters, but by then their gold supply from the Americas had already shrank to a trickle.
The Spanish should've just tried to build up their strength in Sardinia, Naples and Sicily as well as the Americas instead of trying to maintain their influence in the Lowlands and losing two major wars (I think it was two; my memory fades). I guess hindsight is 20-20, but I've always felt that Spanish interference in the Lowlands was a loser bet since they had a hard time reinforcing and projecting their strength there. By the period represented by 2K's coinage, I think they were already the first "Sick Man of Europe".
Hmmm... This would've been a nice undergraduate thesis topic. Too bad I specialized in British history.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
Congratulations on the complete set. I know how hard that is to do, having spent a lot of years looking for some of the coins you have. Your 1809 over assayer is just amazing. Now the hunt really accelerates as we search for new varieties to add to the list. Great set, great collector. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, John. And you're absolutely right - now it gets really interesting!
Nice job, 2K. If I may say... Your 1810-TH doesn't look like the rest of the set. Nevertheless, a fantastic accomplishment.
...
EVP
Thanks, EVP. I know what you mean about the 1810-TH. This was the case of sacrificing originality for scarcity, since I didn't know when the next problem-free example will surface. There was one sold a few months back by Heritage with a better "skin" and already in a PCGS holder, but it also had a touch of the "green monster" on the reverse. Knowing PCGS conservation, they would have taken care of it free of charge, but it would have involved dipping the coin, defeating the whole purpose. The other 1810 (HJ) also doesn't really fit the overall feel of the collection and I'm treating it as a placeholder. That one is a relatively common coin and getting a nice original example is only limited by how much one wants to spend. At present, that number for me is "not much"
P.S. Love the historic backdrop.
What a fantastic set you have displayed. I love the added commentary surrounding each acqistion. Something that makes it interesting is that it not only took some time to assemble but each piece came from different sources - this is actually good to hear because if I understand from what I read these examples may not be so easy to acquire in choice condition. A job well done!
Thank you. I never thought about it, but after you comment i looked through my inventory and my total collection of just under 60 coins came from 30 distinct sources. Lots of "hunting" stories
8 Reales Madness Collection
K
Nice job, 2K. If I may say... Your 1810-TH doesn't look like the rest of the set. Nevertheless, a fantastic accomplishment.
@Nap - I think Spanish power was already on the decline ever since their Armada got defeated by the British, and thus ushering in the Golden Age of British (naval) power at the expense of the Spanish. With the devastating defeat of the Spanish fleet, that allowed the British naval and privateer fleets to raid the Spanish treasure galleons nearly at will. The continental conflicts against the Dutch, British, French and Austrian armies certainly didn't help matters, but by then their gold supply from the Americas had already shrank to a trickle.
The Spanish should've just tried to build up their strength in Sardinia, Naples and Sicily as well as the Americas instead of trying to maintain their influence in the Lowlands and losing two major wars (I think it was two; my memory fades). I guess hindsight is 20-20, but I've always felt that Spanish interference in the Lowlands was a loser bet since they had a hard time reinforcing and projecting their strength there. By the period represented by 2K's coinage, I think they were already the first "Sick Man of Europe".
Hmmm... This would've been a nice undergraduate thesis topic. Too bad I specialized in British history.
EVP
The war with the lowlands took 80 years , especially Philip II who started this war wanted to save the Catholic faith for our country , the newly founded republic of the Netherlands had declared freedom of religion and the Protestants
got the overhand. From all surrounding countries the French Hugenots, the English Pilgrimfathers and others who were prosucuted for their faith found a warm wellcome in the lowlands.
The spanish ships were heavily attacked on sea by the dutch marine forces, eighter sunk or captured including their silver and gold coins and bars.
The VOC exported the spanish gold and silver to the East Indies (India, Indonesia, China & Japan) to buy spices,silk, tea and porcelain and made a fortune.
It drove Spain in the end to bankruptcy, from which they never recovered.
Glad you were able to complete it before all the other expenses like kids come along
Dan - oh, man, don't remind me
8 Reales Madness Collection
Isn't there a whole book on Canadian Tire money? You could be collecting it for the rest of your life!
Or you could start Republic Cap and Ray 8 Reales and be busy for two lifetimes.
8 Reales Madness Collection