As a student of American history and politics, as well as a collector of United States currency, it's my opinion that Harriet Tubman is a very poor choice -- for the first woman on circulating U.S. paper money.
By any measure, she is a controversial figure and should not even have made the first cut -- much less have been the final selection. There are any number of women who are far more deserving than Tubman. Furthermore, I think that it's wrong and polarizing to put a divisive figure on United States currency. Tubman's selection is the latest instance of a troubling pattern, whereby salt is being deliberately rubbed in old wounds.
According to Wikipedia, Tubman helped John Brown recruit men for his 1859 raid on the United States Armory at Harper's Ferry, Virginia (now part of West Virginia). The attack was defeated by a platoon of U.S. Marines, led by U.S. Army Colonel Robert E. Lee (who happened to be visiting nearby at the time). Brown was ultimately convicted of Treason and hanged. Since Tubman aided Brown in the plot, she is also culpable.
I'm sure that there are some redeeming qualities to Harriet Tubman, but in my opinion, she doesn't come close to being worthy of having her portrait on United States currency. Who is going to be next, Benedict Arnold?
It was time to move away from dead presidents on both currency and coinage. The selection is less important that the decision to remove Jackson. Can we now begin to put Lady Liberty back on circulating coins.
I remember when it was proposed to remove Jefferson from the nickel. Virginia lost their minds, and truly believe the own the nickel in terms of Jefferson never being removed.
Time to get away from the last 100 years of dead presidents!
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
Another PC run amuck decision, similar to the SBA dollar coin fiasco.
Actually I'm surprised Obama and the left supports this change considering she has three strikes against her:
1, She was a life long Republican
2. She was a devout Christian.
3. She was pro-gun. She carried a revolver and one of her portraits even show her holding a rifle.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Originally posted by: thisnamztaken Another PC run amuck decision, similar to the SBA dollar coin fiasco.
Actually I'm surprised Obama and the left supports this change considering she has three strikes against her:
1, She was a life long Republican 2. She was a devout Christian. 3. She was pro-gun. She carried a revolver and one of her portraits even show her holding a rifle.
It is my humble assumption, those facts are not the focus of oBama.
Another PC run amuck decision, similar to the SBA dollar coin fiasco.
Actually I'm surprised Obama and the left supports this change considering she has three strikes against her:
1, She was a life long Republican
2. She was a devout Christian.
3. She was pro-gun. She carried a revolver and one of her portraits even show her holding a rifle.
It is my humble assumption, those facts are not the focus of oBama.
I seriously doubt that he is even aware of any of these facts.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I wonder if Obama is aware that Andrew Jackson was the founder of the Democratic party and the first Democratic president?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I wonder if Obama is aware that Andrew Jackson was the founder of the Democratic party and the first Democratic president?
And the first President of the U.S. to earn the distinction of racial bigot,
vis a vis The Trail of Tears.
The only truly fitting historical figure worthy of recognition as a replacement for Jackson, with no political affiliations to the white establishment:
Originally posted by: VanHalen She was brave, not dumb. Union spy, Civil War nurse and Underground Railroad engineer? Damn right she was a gun toting Christian.
As a student of American history and politics, as well as a collector of United States currency, it's my opinion that Harriet Tubman is a very poor choice -- for the first woman on circulating U.S. paper money.
By any measure, she is a controversial figure and should not even have made the first cut -- much less have been the final selection. There are any number of women who are far more deserving than Tubman. Furthermore, I think that it's wrong and polarizing to put a divisive figure on United States currency. Tubman's selection is the latest instance of a troubling pattern, whereby salt is being deliberately rubbed in old wounds.
According to Wikipedia, Tubman helped John Brown recruit men for his 1859 raid on the United States Armory at Harper's Ferry, Virginia (now part of West Virginia). The attack was defeated by a platoon of U.S. Marines, led by U.S. Army Colonel Robert E. Lee (who happened to be visiting nearby at the time). Brown was ultimately convicted of Treason and hanged. Since Tubman aided Brown in the plot, she is also culpable.
I'm sure that there are some redeeming qualities to Harriet Tubman, but in my opinion, she doesn't come close to being worthy of having her portrait on United States currency. Who is going to be next, Benedict Arnold?
[Lightly edited for clarity]
Well, if you consider her involvement in the John Brown raid and fighting against slavery constitutes treason and therefore disqualifies her from appearing on a bill, I have more bad news for you. In June, West Virginia's national parks quarter will showcase John Brown's fort in Harper's Ferry. From your point of view, yet more "treason", this time by the Mint, not the BEP.
Personal mortgages are a separate issue, but the only valid reason for debt is to finance business.
Otherwise you are just living beyond your means.
I haven't really looked at as the reason for my debt to hospitals and doctors is because I'm living beyond my means.I do like your valid,if not truly only,reason for debt is to finance business,though.
Do you believe in supporting the debt relief industry when necessary? Remember,bankruptcy attornies need to eat and feed their young too.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton should be on the new note (my opinion,of course) but it seems she made some uncomplimentary and highly public remarks about the bible.Stanton was a free-thinker,a leader,along with Susan B. Anthony,of the movement to win for women the right to vote.
Was Tubman more accomplished than Stanton or was she less controversial than Stanton? My guess is less controversial.
Surely the immutable laws of the universe can teach more impressive and exalted lessons than the holy books of all the religions on earth. Elizabeth Cady Stanton
This is the kind of thing Stanton would say in 19th Century America.Stanton is a fine example of a woman with courage.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
We don't need a wild animal or a national park scene on our currency or coinage. Liberty is fine, and so is recognizing various symbols of freedom from tyranny or slavery, however -
Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Thomas Edison, Nicolai Tesla, Henry Ford, Orville & Wilbur Wright, Andrew Carnegie, Alexander Graham Bell, Albert Einstein, J.D. Rockefeller, Daniel Boone, Sam Houston, Jim Bowie, Davey Crockett, Jim Thorpe, Clara Barton, Charles Lindbergh, Amelia Earhart, Babe Ruth, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Bill Shockley, Gordon Moore, Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Vince Lombardi, Alan Shepard, John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, Christa McAuliffe - and many, many more. All of them were imperfect human beings. Besides that, what else do they all have in common? I'll give you one guess. They aren't on circulating coinage or memorialized in currency. I wonder why not? They were certainly accomplished and/or notable Americans.
American History is being erased & trivialized, and this troubling agenda needs to be reversed.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I like the move to put Harriet Tubman on the $20 for two reasons:
-It brings attention to paper money/hard currency. I know we will probably eventually move to a cashless society. But it looks like that can has been kicked down the road for a bit longer if they are bothering changing our currency.
-It brings attention to paper money/hard currency. Hoarding of Jackson $20s and Tubman $20s when the change happens will bring in more people to the hobby of paper money collecting. Coins are an off-shoot of that, so I am hoping this change will in a small way bring in more coin collectors to boost this decidedly weak coin market.
I have existed since the creation of this world and will exist until its end. Only my form will change. For these 80 human life years, I have the benefit of having a functioning body and consciousness. I will not waste this opportunity.
Originally posted by: mr1874 Personal mortgages are a separate issue, but the only valid reason for debt is to finance business.
Otherwise you are just living beyond your means.
I haven't really looked at as the reason for my debt to hospitals and doctors is because I'm living beyond my means.I do like your valid,if not truly only,reason for debt is to finance business,though.
Do you believe in supporting the debt relief industry when necessary? Remember,bankruptcy attornies need to eat and feed their young too.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton should be on the new note (my opinion,of course) but it seems she made some uncomplimentary and highly public remarks about the bible.Stanton was a free-thinker,a leader,along with Susan B. Anthony,of the movement to win for women the right to vote.
Was Tubman more accomplished than Stanton or was she less controversial than Stanton? My guess is less controversial.
Surely the immutable laws of the universe can teach more impressive and exalted lessons than the holy books of all the religions on earth. Elizabeth Cady Stanton
This is the kind of thing Stanton would say in 19th Century America.Stanton is a fine example of a woman with courage.
Isn't the plan to put her [Elizabeth Cady Stanton] and some others on the back of the new $10, or did I read that wrong ?
We seem to be confabulating two unrelated aspects: the revision devaluing of Jackson, and the worthiness of Tubman.
Jackson was a decisive, principled man, even though one may selectively disagree about his decisions and his principles. He probably would have done quite well in this election season, with all its revulsion against political indecision and ineffectuality.
Yet Tubman (or some other icon of America's wrestling with the slavery demon) requires a spotlight. We confronted a similar argument when Martin Luther King Day was proposed as a national holiday. There were prominent souls questioning then about why more worthy historical stalwarts shouldn't get the Day instead, like Benjamin Franklin. We ultimately determined, though, that we needed to say something as a nation about the wrenching malignancy of slavery and (even more) about the insidious rationalization we entertained among ourselves in order to square our holding people in bondage with the truly lofty principles of the Declaration of Independence.
Slavery has been a crisis and a cancer from its inception here. It serves us well to create and publically display a counter-narrative with holidays and faces on currency, not as a PC guilt-trip, but as an assertion that we as a nation no longer justify any belief in racial superiority/inferiority--and that we are working publically and deliberately toward the day when that belief will have genuinely faded.
Originally posted by: GeorgeKellogg As a student of American history and politics, as well as a collector of United States currency, it's my opinion that Harriet Tubman is a very poor choice -- for the first woman on circulating U.S. paper money.
By any measure, she is a controversial figure and should not even have made the first cut -- much less have been the final selection. There are any number of women who are far more deserving than Tubman. Furthermore, I think that it's wrong and polarizing to put a divisive figure on United States currency. Tubman's selection is the latest instance of a troubling pattern, whereby salt is being deliberately rubbed in old wounds.
According to Wikipedia, Tubman helped John Brown recruit men for his 1859 raid on the United States Armory at Harper's Ferry, Virginia (now part of West Virginia). The attack was defeated by a platoon of U.S. Marines, led by U.S. Army Colonel Robert E. Lee (who happened to be visiting nearby at the time). Brown was ultimately convicted of Treason and hanged. Since Tubman aided Brown in the plot, she is also culpable.
I'm sure that there are some redeeming qualities to Harriet Tubman, but in my opinion, she doesn't come close to being worthy of having her portrait on United States currency. Who is going to be next, Benedict Arnold?
[Lightly edited for clarity]
Well, if you consider her involvement in the John Brown raid and fighting against slavery constitutes treason and therefore disqualifies her from appearing on a bill, I have more bad news for you. In June, West Virginia's national parks quarter will showcase John Brown's fort in Harper's Ferry. From your point of view, yet more "treason", this time by the Mint, not the BEP.
The fact that Harriet Tubman assisted John Brown -- in planning an armed attack against the United States -- doesn't disqualify the selection of her portrait on United States currency. Indeed, the only legal requirements are that the subject of the portrait (1) be deceased and (2) be selected by the Secretary of the Treasury.
In my opinion, however, her material support of Brown, in the commission of a deadly act for which he was convicted of Treason, does make her a very poor choice. Our country is polarized enough -- without a controversial, divisive figure being portrayed on our currency. One need only review the sharply divergent comments in this thread -- to see why her selection was not a wise one.
For the record, I think that Tubman's opposition to slavery was one of her strong points. However, what makes her a very poor choice -- as an example to hold out to others -- is her complicity in a violent and murderous act against the United States -- instead of her choosing to be a lawful agent of social change.
As I see it, from a pragmatic viewpoint, the "Tubbie" will become the most proactively graffitti altered currency of all time, even surpassing the "where's George?" $1 FRN's by a large margin.
Comments
By any measure, she is a controversial figure and should not even have made the first cut -- much less have been the final selection. There are any number of women who are far more deserving than Tubman. Furthermore, I think that it's wrong and polarizing to put a divisive figure on United States currency. Tubman's selection is the latest instance of a troubling pattern, whereby salt is being deliberately rubbed in old wounds.
According to Wikipedia, Tubman helped John Brown recruit men for his 1859 raid on the United States Armory at Harper's Ferry, Virginia (now part of West Virginia). The attack was defeated by a platoon of U.S. Marines, led by U.S. Army Colonel Robert E. Lee (who happened to be visiting nearby at the time). Brown was ultimately convicted of Treason and hanged. Since Tubman aided Brown in the plot, she is also culpable.
I'm sure that there are some redeeming qualities to Harriet Tubman, but in my opinion, she doesn't come close to being worthy of having her portrait on United States currency. Who is going to be next, Benedict Arnold?
[Lightly edited for clarity]
I remember when it was proposed to remove Jefferson from the nickel. Virginia lost their minds, and truly believe the own the nickel in terms of Jefferson never being removed.
Time to get away from the last 100 years of dead presidents!
I apologize for the profanity. I don't know how to edit it out.
My YouTube Channel
- Jim
Another PC run amuck decision, similar to the SBA dollar coin fiasco.
Actually I'm surprised Obama and the left supports this change considering she has three strikes against her:
1, She was a life long Republican
2. She was a devout Christian.
3. She was pro-gun. She carried a revolver and one of her portraits even show her holding a rifle.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Another PC run amuck decision, similar to the SBA dollar coin fiasco.
Actually I'm surprised Obama and the left supports this change considering she has three strikes against her:
1, She was a life long Republican
2. She was a devout Christian.
3. She was pro-gun. She carried a revolver and one of her portraits even show her holding a rifle.
It is my humble assumption, those facts are not the focus of oBama.
Another PC run amuck decision, similar to the SBA dollar coin fiasco.
Actually I'm surprised Obama and the left supports this change considering she has three strikes against her:
1, She was a life long Republican
2. She was a devout Christian.
3. She was pro-gun. She carried a revolver and one of her portraits even show her holding a rifle.
It is my humble assumption, those facts are not the focus of oBama.
I seriously doubt that he is even aware of any of these facts.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I wonder if Obama is aware that Andrew Jackson was the founder of the Democratic party and the first Democratic president?
And the first President of the U.S. to earn the distinction of racial bigot,
vis a vis The Trail of Tears.
The only truly fitting historical figure worthy of recognition as a replacement for Jackson, with no political affiliations to the white establishment:
Apache warrior Geronimo. Think about it.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
She was brave, not dumb. Union spy, Civil War nurse and Underground Railroad engineer? Damn right she was a gun toting Christian.
As a student of American history and politics, as well as a collector of United States currency, it's my opinion that Harriet Tubman is a very poor choice -- for the first woman on circulating U.S. paper money.
By any measure, she is a controversial figure and should not even have made the first cut -- much less have been the final selection. There are any number of women who are far more deserving than Tubman. Furthermore, I think that it's wrong and polarizing to put a divisive figure on United States currency. Tubman's selection is the latest instance of a troubling pattern, whereby salt is being deliberately rubbed in old wounds.
According to Wikipedia, Tubman helped John Brown recruit men for his 1859 raid on the United States Armory at Harper's Ferry, Virginia (now part of West Virginia). The attack was defeated by a platoon of U.S. Marines, led by U.S. Army Colonel Robert E. Lee (who happened to be visiting nearby at the time). Brown was ultimately convicted of Treason and hanged. Since Tubman aided Brown in the plot, she is also culpable.
I'm sure that there are some redeeming qualities to Harriet Tubman, but in my opinion, she doesn't come close to being worthy of having her portrait on United States currency. Who is going to be next, Benedict Arnold?
[Lightly edited for clarity]
Well, if you consider her involvement in the John Brown raid and fighting against slavery constitutes treason and therefore disqualifies her from appearing on a bill, I have more bad news for you. In June, West Virginia's national parks quarter will showcase John Brown's fort in Harper's Ferry. From your point of view, yet more "treason", this time by the Mint, not the BEP.
Otherwise you are just living beyond your means.
Otherwise you are just living beyond your means.
I haven't really looked at as the reason for my debt to hospitals and doctors is because I'm living beyond my means.I do like your valid,if not truly only,reason for debt is to finance business,though.
Do you believe in supporting the debt relief industry when necessary? Remember,bankruptcy attornies need to eat and feed their young too.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton should be on the new note (my opinion,of course) but it seems she made some uncomplimentary and highly public remarks about the bible.Stanton was a free-thinker,a leader,along with Susan B. Anthony,of the movement to win for women the right to vote.
Was Tubman more accomplished than Stanton or was she less controversial than Stanton?
My guess is less controversial.
Surely the immutable laws of the universe can teach more impressive and exalted lessons than the holy books of all the religions on earth. Elizabeth Cady Stanton
This is the kind of thing Stanton would say in 19th Century America.Stanton is a fine example of a woman with courage.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Thomas Edison, Nicolai Tesla, Henry Ford, Orville & Wilbur Wright, Andrew Carnegie, Alexander Graham Bell, Albert Einstein, J.D. Rockefeller, Daniel Boone, Sam Houston, Jim Bowie, Davey Crockett, Jim Thorpe, Clara Barton, Charles Lindbergh, Amelia Earhart, Babe Ruth, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Bill Shockley, Gordon Moore, Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Vince Lombardi, Alan Shepard, John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, Christa McAuliffe - and many, many more. All of them were imperfect human beings. Besides that, what else do they all have in common? I'll give you one guess. They aren't on circulating coinage or memorialized in currency. I wonder why not? They were certainly accomplished and/or notable Americans.
American History is being erased & trivialized, and this troubling agenda needs to be reversed.
I knew it would happen.
-It brings attention to paper money/hard currency. I know we will probably eventually move to a cashless society. But it looks like that can has been kicked down the road for a bit longer if they are bothering changing our currency.
-It brings attention to paper money/hard currency. Hoarding of Jackson $20s and Tubman $20s when the change happens will bring in more people to the hobby of paper money collecting. Coins are an off-shoot of that, so I am hoping this change will in a small way bring in more coin collectors to boost this decidedly weak coin market.
Personal mortgages are a separate issue, but the only valid reason for debt is to finance business.
Otherwise you are just living beyond your means.
I haven't really looked at as the reason for my debt to hospitals and doctors is because I'm living beyond my means.I do like your valid,if not truly only,reason for debt is to finance business,though.
Do you believe in supporting the debt relief industry when necessary? Remember,bankruptcy attornies need to eat and feed their young too.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton should be on the new note (my opinion,of course) but it seems she made some uncomplimentary and highly public remarks about the bible.Stanton was a free-thinker,a leader,along with Susan B. Anthony,of the movement to win for women the right to vote.
Was Tubman more accomplished than Stanton or was she less controversial than Stanton?
My guess is less controversial.
Surely the immutable laws of the universe can teach more impressive and exalted lessons than the holy books of all the religions on earth. Elizabeth Cady Stanton
This is the kind of thing Stanton would say in 19th Century America.Stanton is a fine example of a woman with courage.
Isn't the plan to put her [Elizabeth Cady Stanton] and some others on the back of the new $10, or did I read that wrong ?
Apache warrior Geronimo. Think about it.
Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse dual obverse portrait
or this one, the last of the last, ghost dance leader - Wavoka
And I'm afraid that the new note will be informally called a "Tubby".
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Jackson was a decisive, principled man, even though one may selectively disagree about his decisions and his principles. He probably would have done quite well in this election season, with all its revulsion against political indecision and ineffectuality.
Yet Tubman (or some other icon of America's wrestling with the slavery demon) requires a spotlight. We confronted a similar argument when Martin Luther King Day was proposed as a national holiday. There were prominent souls questioning then about why more worthy historical stalwarts shouldn't get the Day instead, like Benjamin Franklin. We ultimately determined, though, that we needed to say something as a nation about the wrenching malignancy of slavery and (even more) about the insidious rationalization we entertained among ourselves in order to square our holding people in bondage with the truly lofty principles of the Declaration of Independence.
Slavery has been a crisis and a cancer from its inception here. It serves us well to create and publically display a counter-narrative with holidays and faces on currency, not as a PC guilt-trip, but as an assertion that we as a nation no longer justify any belief in racial superiority/inferiority--and that we are working publically and deliberately toward the day when that belief will have genuinely faded.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
(an interesting essay about who Tubman really was)LINKY
As a student of American history and politics, as well as a collector of United States currency, it's my opinion that Harriet Tubman is a very poor choice -- for the first woman on circulating U.S. paper money.
By any measure, she is a controversial figure and should not even have made the first cut -- much less have been the final selection. There are any number of women who are far more deserving than Tubman. Furthermore, I think that it's wrong and polarizing to put a divisive figure on United States currency. Tubman's selection is the latest instance of a troubling pattern, whereby salt is being deliberately rubbed in old wounds.
According to Wikipedia, Tubman helped John Brown recruit men for his 1859 raid on the United States Armory at Harper's Ferry, Virginia (now part of West Virginia). The attack was defeated by a platoon of U.S. Marines, led by U.S. Army Colonel Robert E. Lee (who happened to be visiting nearby at the time). Brown was ultimately convicted of Treason and hanged. Since Tubman aided Brown in the plot, she is also culpable.
I'm sure that there are some redeeming qualities to Harriet Tubman, but in my opinion, she doesn't come close to being worthy of having her portrait on United States currency. Who is going to be next, Benedict Arnold?
[Lightly edited for clarity]
Well, if you consider her involvement in the John Brown raid and fighting against slavery constitutes treason and therefore disqualifies her from appearing on a bill, I have more bad news for you. In June, West Virginia's national parks quarter will showcase John Brown's fort in Harper's Ferry. From your point of view, yet more "treason", this time by the Mint, not the BEP.
The fact that Harriet Tubman assisted John Brown -- in planning an armed attack against the United States -- doesn't disqualify the selection of her portrait on United States currency. Indeed, the only legal requirements are that the subject of the portrait (1) be deceased and (2) be selected by the Secretary of the Treasury.
In my opinion, however, her material support of Brown, in the commission of a deadly act for which he was convicted of Treason, does make her a very poor choice. Our country is polarized enough -- without a controversial, divisive figure being portrayed on our currency. One need only review the sharply divergent comments in this thread -- to see why her selection was not a wise one.
For the record, I think that Tubman's opposition to slavery was one of her strong points. However, what makes her a very poor choice -- as an example to hold out to others -- is her complicity in a violent and murderous act against the United States -- instead of her choosing to be a lawful agent of social change.
I LOLed so hard at this, I hurt my self.
As I see it, from a pragmatic viewpoint, the "Tubbie" will become the most proactively graffitti altered currency of all time, even surpassing the "where's George?" $1 FRN's by a large margin.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com