Newbie question about overstrikes

talkingwalnut2

I'm trying to educate myself about the coin manufacturing process, and since my mind works in, well, odd ways, I have some what might be silly questions. Please bear with me.....





First, how is an overstrike physically made? Let's say it's a D over S. So the original S mint mark coin was stamped at the mint. Then what happens? It seems to me that that fully struck coin would have to be aligned just right when stamped with a different die (the D) so that all of the main details - the portrait, the words LIBERTY, etc, don't get mushed up - and the result is that most of the raised metal that formed the S now get rearranged to form a D. Is that correct? Does the mint have some process that automatically aligns the re-struck coin so that it is in exactly the same orientation?

AUandAG

First off, welcome....



Think that the mint made dies with a S for San Fran but then Denver called and said they needed a few dies....well, the mint just happened to have some S dies already made and with just a little adjustment (effacing the S (mostly) and then adding the D they just got the dies off to Denver asap.



The Morgan dollars have good examples....the CC dies that were returned to the Mint about 1898 (if my mind remembers the date, long after it closed) and they then used the reverses in New Orleans by almost effacing the CC's and then adding the O. 1900 O/CC.



Hope that helps.



bob



PS: someone will correct my errors or terminology I hope.

talkingwalnut2

Ok, thanks a lot. So those are a die error and not a strike error.



Next question is about quantities. Is it okay if I do a hypothetical scenario with round numbers?



So, it's 1880 (or whatever date both mints were operating for the pedants) and Carson City and New Orleans are both pumping out Morgans. First, would they have both gotten the same size order from Washington? Or would the orders have been prorated for some reason?



Let's say they each get ordered to stamp a million Morgans. The toolmakers at each mint make a master hub, and the plan is to have each hub make a dozen dies, with each die scheduled to stamp out 80k coins before being retired. Everything goes well at Carson city, but in the big easy, for some reason the hub breaks after only 11 dies have been forged or whatever. So the head of New Orleans calls up the head of Carson City and asks him to make an additional die and send it to New Orleans. The CC people, having finished their own dies, take out their tiny tools and form an O over where the CC was, then fab a die or two and send them to LA.



Next question is about quantities and values. If each die is stamping out 80k coins and 1 out of 12 is a O over CC, that would make this a pretty common "error", no? So the value wouldn't be that much higher than a regular 1880 O.



Can anyone comment on and adjust the numbers and/or reasoning in the above scenario? Thanks for your expertise!

TwoKopeiki

I would think that in your example, the CC mintmark would be filled-in with metal, surface polished flat, and an O punched in over it. The metal used to fill the old mint mark is softer, so after a while it compresses further, allowing for a faint outline of the previous mint mark to show. And as long as that die continues to be used, all coins struck with it will continue to display the O over CC.

AUandAG

The branch mints (CC, S, O, D) did not make dies. They were made in Philadelphia and sent out to each mint as needed, requested, etc.



There were 6 unused (or slightly used) reverse dies for the 1900 O/CC that were retooled and then sent down to Nawlins. So, there are several varieties and some more rare or scarce than others.



Certainly the branch mint could and sometimes did run out of dies due to failure, etc. If demand for coins was such that more were needed (or mandated by Congress, Treasury, etc) then more dies would be made and shipped out to the branch, providing that there was enough time in the year left to do the deal.



Even Philly ran out of dies and had to rush old dies into rehab or make new dies at the end of the year. Consider that in 1853 they ran short of quarters and demand said that more needed to be made. However, for whatever reason, it was near the years end new dies for 1854 had already been made but no 1853 dies were available for re-hubbing or re-tooling. So, they just took and 1854 die and changed it to 1853 and made coins. So, you now have a die meant for one year being used for a previous year. 1853/4.



Confusing at best but sure fun to try to understand...I'm always having that trouble and will be corrected soon on terminology or such.



bob

talkingwalnut2

Not at all - this has been very helpful and I really appreciate it.



I'll ask another set of questions once I get caught up at work.





Thanks again

TopographicOceans

Good thread

Aspie_Rocco

Excellent and informative thread. Great answers and questions everyone.