"the auctioneer did announce before the sale that the auction house may enter "a series of bids" on behalf of the consignor, up to the amount of the reserve."
This is the law in NYC. The announcement is required even if there is no bidding on behalf of the consignor nor reserves.
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
So if I understand correctly, the auctioneer could have made several bids on behalf of the consignor, one after another, with no other bids in between. Is that true? My prior impression is that the auctioneer would only execute bids up to a pre-determined level after a "real" bid was executed. If the former is true, it seems stupid to me -- you place a bid, there are no other bids, so you up your own bid?
Originally posted by: Connecticoin So if I understand correctly, the auctioneer could have made several bids on behalf of the consignor, one after another, with no other bids in between. Is that true? My prior impression is that the auctioneer would only execute bids up to a pre-determined level after a "real" bid was executed. If the former is true, it seems stupid to me -- you place a bid, there are no other bids, so you up your own bid?
Not quite. There were bids being placed by a SB agent on the phone from the right deck (Brian K. was the SB person on the phone). Every time a phone bid came in, Chris K., sitting up front on the podium, made the next bid on behalf of the consignor.
Much has been made of the fact that SB announced that it may make a series of bids on behalf of the consignor up to the reserve price. SB certainly did not announce that they might have two different people making bids against each other, both on behalf of the consignor.
The wording of the SB press release is interesting:
"A world record sum of $10,575,000 was bid from the phone for the finest known 1804 dollar, the highest price ever offered for any coin, but it did not surpass the consignor's reserve price. The previous world record of $10,016,875 was bid in the Stack's Bowers Galleries January 2013 sale of the finest known 1794 dollar."
I have no idea whether those phone bids were actual bids from a qualified buyer or not -- it is certainly rather [insert adjective here] if they were not. Possible adjective choices: 1. pathetic 2. disappointing 3. mystifying 4. comical.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Originally posted by: Stack's Bowers: A world record sum of $10,575,000 was bid from the phone for the finest known 1804 dollar, the highest price ever offered for any coin, but it did not surpass the consignor’s reserve price. The previous world record of $10,016,875 was bid in the Stack’s Bowers Galleries sale of January 2013 for the finest known 1794 dollar.
I still have a preference for realized prices so the 1794 is still the top from my perspective. How important are unrealized bids for records?
ConnectIcoin: "So if I understand correctly, the auctioneer could have made several bids on behalf of the consignor, one after another, with no other bids in between. Is that true? My prior impression is that the auctioneer would only execute bids up to a pre-determined level after a "real" bid was executed. If the former is true, it seems stupid to me -- you place a bid, there are no other bids, so you up your own bid?"
Connect's "prior impression" is wrong. The auction firm may post 'unreal' bids before a "real bid" is executed.
Although I would have worded his point differently, this statement is essentially correct. I have attended innumerable auctions, including many that did not include coins.
The Pogue IV sale was video-recorded by Charles Morgan & Hubert Walker. I hope that they post footage of the announcement that was made before the first lot was offered. In any event, this kind of activity has occurred, or seems to have occurred, at many other Sotheby's auctions, and is legal under New York State law, as far as I know. IMO, such activity is unsuitable for coin auctions, for cultural reasons.
Comments
This is the law in NYC. The announcement is required even if there is no bidding on behalf of the consignor nor reserves.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
So if I understand correctly, the auctioneer could have made several bids on behalf of the consignor, one after another, with no other bids in between. Is that true? My prior impression is that the auctioneer would only execute bids up to a pre-determined level after a "real" bid was executed. If the former is true, it seems stupid to me -- you place a bid, there are no other bids, so you up your own bid?
Not quite. There were bids being placed by a SB agent on the phone from the right deck (Brian K. was the SB person on the phone). Every time a phone bid came in, Chris K., sitting up front on the podium, made the next bid on behalf of the consignor.
Much has been made of the fact that SB announced that it may make a series of bids on behalf of the consignor up to the reserve price. SB certainly did not announce that they might have two different people making bids against each other, both on behalf of the consignor.
The wording of the SB press release is interesting:
"A world record sum of $10,575,000 was bid from the phone for the finest known 1804 dollar, the highest price ever offered for any coin, but it did not surpass the consignor's reserve price. The previous world record of $10,016,875 was bid in the Stack's Bowers Galleries January 2013 sale of the finest known 1794 dollar."
I have no idea whether those phone bids were actual bids from a qualified buyer or not -- it is certainly rather [insert adjective here] if they were not. Possible adjective choices: 1. pathetic 2. disappointing 3. mystifying 4. comical.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
These were not the words that came to my mind at all.
A world record sum of $10,575,000 was bid from the phone for the finest known 1804 dollar, the highest price ever offered for any coin, but it did not surpass the consignor’s reserve price. The previous world record of $10,016,875 was bid in the Stack’s Bowers Galleries sale of January 2013 for the finest known 1794 dollar.
I still have a preference for realized prices so the 1794 is still the top from my perspective. How important are unrealized bids for records?
When will it be beat now?
No relevance whatsoever. But no doubt that one day it will be beat. Probably by J-1776
I have no illusions that my 1794 is the world's most valuable coin .... but it's a great great coin
I still have a preference for realized prices so the 1794 is still the top from my perspective. How important are unrealized bids for records?
No relevance whatsoever. But no doubt that one day it will be beat. Probably by J-1776
I have no illusions that my 1794 is the world's most valuable coin .... but it's a great great coin
Are you referring to the 1907 $20 Indian Head in gold, now
listed as J-1905 ?
R.I.P. Bear
Sunshine Rare Coins
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ConnectIcoin: "So if I understand correctly, the auctioneer could have made several bids on behalf of the consignor, one after another, with no other bids in between. Is that true? My prior impression is that the auctioneer would only execute bids up to a pre-determined level after a "real" bid was executed. If the former is true, it seems stupid to me -- you place a bid, there are no other bids, so you up your own bid?"
Connect's "prior impression" is wrong. The auction firm may post 'unreal' bids before a "real bid" is executed.
Although I would have worded his point differently, this statement is essentially correct. I have attended innumerable auctions, including many that did not include coins.
The Pogue IV sale was video-recorded by Charles Morgan & Hubert Walker. I hope that they post footage of the announcement that was made before the first lot was offered. In any event, this kind of activity has occurred, or seems to have occurred, at many other Sotheby's auctions, and is legal under New York State law, as far as I know. IMO, such activity is unsuitable for coin auctions, for cultural reasons.
Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection Part 18 – Half Dollars and Bust Dollars Fare Well in 4th Auction
Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, part 17: Importance of 4th Sale to Collectors who Cannot Afford the Coins
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