upgrading and or crossing old fattie Ngc Holders
Cacoinguy
Posts: 279 ✭✭✭
I have had plenty of success upgrading old green holders and crossing the old little white anacs and ana slabs. Interested to hear how you all have down with the old soap bar NGC holders?
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I agree with Cougar.
What do you think of the coin? Do you think that it will pass muster? It's only money for crossover fees right? Make it count.
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When I pealed off the sticker - the hologram came off with it.
So I sent it back to get re-holdered and re-CAC'd.
I got yelled at by members here for destroying an old fattie.
Personally I have more attachment to small ANACS holders.
So I'd probably leave it alone unless I was pretty sure the coin would upgrade and there was a significant jump in value. Even then I wouldn't cross it because of the conservative grades crosses often get. I'd crack it (unless I felt there were a chance it might BB).
Lance.
I have had plenty of success upgrading old green holders and crossing the old little white anacs and ana slabs. Interested to hear how you all have down with the old soap bar NGC holders?
Me too. But I've not had good luck crossing gem 19th and early 20th century NGC grade type coins, and that includes old fatties.
I'd agree unless there's a big windfall and the coin is a monster, just leave it be. If you have a worthy and potentially upgradeable old fatty, your best bet of getting it done as quick as possible is to crack it out. And with some of those coins, because of deeper toning (incl AT), they often don't make it back into a graded holder....been there, done that. A lot of old fatties have thicker toning or luster that is diminished, though with very few marks for the grade. Those coins have trouble measuring up today.
The old fatties may continue to increase in popularity. Several board members like them, including me. If you have no reason to sell in the near future, leave 'em be. No one knows what the "game" and "rules" will be years down the road.
Back in the day, I cracked an 1882-S MS66 DM. It came back MS66, not even PL. Standards have really changed on those suckers.
One area where they are terrible is DMPL Morgans. Almost all of the high grade ones are not DM at all. I am talking the MS66 or 67 holders. Many of the DM 64-65 also will not make it today.
This is true of all the grading service old holders. Coins designated as DMPL in old "ANA" ANACS and PCGS rattler holders rarely meet the standards of today for DMPL.
On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
To the comments on DMPLs and PLs . . I could not agree More! As many are aware, I enjoy the 'Doily' holders as well as other earlier NGC and ANACS. The Doilies I have now that are graded DMPL or PL would have a relatively tough time passing muster under current standards. That is a thought that has been echoed by many numismatists I have displayed them with . . . we are stunned over the lack of mirrors on Doily DMPLs.
Just FWIW . . . I certainly will never be cracking a Doily . . . but then again, most numismatists who would look at my Doily DMPLs would value the coin as a PL at best. In most cases, I would agree with them.
Drunner
It won't happen with a cross. Maybe a cross and a regrade. Or a crack out if you feel it's solid.
Lance.
I bought the nickel to flip, just not a series I collect. Heavily into bust halves right now. Any advice on what to study on the coin? Wish I had an account with Cac wonder what they would think of it.
It doesn't matter what CAC thinks of it.....only what PCGS thinks of it.
Such as this one:
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
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It certainly does matter what CAC thinks of it. After all, JA probably knows as good as anyone what can fly or not fly into a PCGS holder. If CAC doesn't sticker your old fatty Buff, that's a problem. Unless your Buff has been buried for 15-25 years and is fresh back to the market, you'd have to ask why it isn't in a PCGS holder, already stickered, or not upgraded to 65+ or 66. If you didn't get via a fresh source, you can be 90% sure that all those possibilities were already considered by the previous owner(s).
First, I agree that JA's opinion is good.
However, I think there's a bit of hyperbole in the timeline and thought process.
Not everyone is a flipper/dealer and not every non-PCGS coin has been through a cross/upgrade attempt.
I've had a few for less than 15-25 years that I feel reasonably certain fit that criteria of not having been run through.
Now, were they considered by a previous owner? Maybe. Who that owner was and their expertise is unknown though. And, that matters a lot in situations like this, imho.
For instance, I have evaluated them and I think they can cross, BUT, I currently am keeping them in their old fatty holders. If/when I sell them, if nothing changes in the meantime, a prospective buyer reading certain comments in a thread like this, if they aren't at a certain level of knowledge, may be scared off...unnecessarily, and miss out on a nice coin.
So, while what you said is true and fine for some, maybe even many, coins, I think 90% is a bit of a scare number.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I bought the nickel to flip, just not a series I collect. Heavily into bust halves right now. Any advice on what to study on the coin? Wish I had an account with Cac wonder what they would think of it.
It doesn't matter what CAC thinks of it.....only what PCGS thinks of it.
and it really doesn't matter what PCGS thinks of it either since that opinion can change with each submission.
When you attempt to cross to PCGS the only thing that maters at that time is what they (PCGS) thinks of the coin. It doesn't matter what holder it is in or what grade the holder says or how many stickers it has or doesn't have...the only thing they (PCGS) are looking at is the coin. That is what I meant by my statement.
It certainly does matter what CAC thinks of it. After all, JA probably knows as good as anyone what can fly or not fly into a PCGS holder. If CAC doesn't sticker your old fatty Buff, that's a problem. Unless your Buff has been buried for 15-25 years and is fresh back to the market, you'd have to ask why it isn't in a PCGS holder, already stickered, or not upgraded to 65+ or 66. If you didn't get via a fresh source, you can be 90% sure that all those possibilities were already considered by the previous owner(s).
First, I agree that JA's opinion is good.
However, I think there's a bit of hyperbole in the timeline and thought process.
Not everyone is a flipper/dealer and not every non-PCGS coin has been through a cross/upgrade attempt.
I've had a few for less than 15-25 years that I feel reasonably certain fit that criteria of not having been run through.
Now, were they considered by a previous owner? Maybe. Who that owner was and their expertise is unknown though. And, that matters a lot in situations like this, imho.
For instance, I have evaluated them and I think they can cross, BUT, I currently am keeping them in their old fatty holders. If/when I sell them, if nothing changes in the meantime, a prospective buyer reading certain comments in a thread like this, if they aren't at a certain level of knowledge, may be scared off...unnecessarily, and miss out on a nice coin.
So, while what you said is true and fine for some, maybe even many, coins, I think 90% is a bit of a scare number.
If you read what I posted again, you qualify as that 15-25 yr "exception" to the 90% rule. Fwiw, 90% of all old fatties are already cracked out and history. Of the 10% that are still left, I suspect the majority of them have traded hands more than once and been "evaluated" for potential arbitrage. Unless you've owned it for 15-25 years, or know it sat with an owner who did nothing to promote the coin higher, then I stick by the "scary" 90% number as the odds against you. Just on the remaining old fatties out there, I'd say 40% or less of them can cross under the current system. It could be a lot higher too. If you cracked them all out, I think 60-75% of them would end up in the same grade or higher PCGS holder.
My own experiences, and many others here as well, suggests that PCGS does indeed "look" at the holder when evaluating a cross. They tighten the standards accordingly when viewing an NGC coin, especially one in a 66 or higher grade, and especially those carrying price tags of 4 figures or more. And I can't blame them since they often can't see the rim, and the coin's luster and surfaces are partially blocked by thick plastic.