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If This is "Full Bands"...

BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭
Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist based in SoCal.

Comments

  • Bob1951Bob1951 Posts: 268 ✭✭
    Link is not working
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Bob1951

    Link is not working




    Because he pasted the full URL, including the http:// without deleting the default https:// that the system puts in there.



    You can click it, let it error, then remove the http://https:// portion and your browser will go there.



    Or, just Click this one which is "fixed"

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Bochiman
    Originally posted by: Bob1951
    Link is not working


    Because he pasted the full URL, including the http:// without deleting the default https:// that the system puts in there.

    You can click it, let it error, then remove the http://https:// portion and your browser will go there.

    Or, just Click this one which is "fixed"


    No, I deleted the first https:// and it still does not work.

    BTW, your link doesn't work for me either.
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist based in SoCal.
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BustHalfBrian

    Originally posted by: Bochiman

    Originally posted by: Bob1951

    Link is not working




    Because he pasted the full URL, including the http:// without deleting the default https:// that the system puts in there.



    You can click it, let it error, then remove the http://https:// portion and your browser will go there.



    Or, just https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-2LG5R">Click this one which is "fixed"




    No, I deleted the first https:// and it still does not work.



    BTW, your link doesn't work for me either.






    Try mine now. It works. The software is putting the http:// back in even if you delete it when you paste.



    I just verified.





    Just go back to your OP and edit the link and delete one of the http(s):// and it will work.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    btw....without seeing it in hand, to see if the lighting is playing funky with the middle band, I can understand your consternation, as NGC is supposed to consider that middle band.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • Bob1951Bob1951 Posts: 268 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: Bochiman

    btw....without seeing it in hand, to see if the lighting is playing funky with the middle band, I can understand your consternation, as NGC is supposed to consider that middle band.




    I agree with this assessment. The coin needs to be seen in hand.



  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lighting would be key especially on the center bands. The imager should know this and placed particular emphasis on this coin date/mm.



    Does not look like from the posted images and should not garner a respectable bid for such a lofty grade.
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,557 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of times the FB Mercs need to be seen in hand as pics don`t always capture the right angle to show them.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    You can't tell FB Mercs from photos, don't waste your time.



    But I would say from having handled a lot of 1945-P FB Mercs, usually there is a reason why they are in a certain branded slab.
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From that image, no way it is FB.
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,521 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It does not look to be FB from the photos but it might be. I have owned FB Mercs, photographed them and noticed the bands did not look split in the photos and sometimes I have gone back to photograph the coin again, adjusted the light setup ever so slightly and re-shot the reverse image. Since those are the only images you have to work with, you would need to see it in hand so that you could make a clear determination.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Add to the fact that it is supposed to be worth 23K, no way I would buy that thing as a FB.
  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like a photo lighting problem to me. You can't tell anything from that photo.



    EDIT TO ADD: That being said the "premium" difference between a 1945 FB vs. no-FB is ridiculous.



    The PCGS price guide lists an MS67 as $65, and an MS67FB at $47,500. Is a micro-graded, very small area of the coin's detail really logically worth 73,000% more than a non-FB example?



    The arbitrary designations that have crept into USA collecting (largely to separate the "men" from the "boys" for the registry sets) are just silly. Full bands, full head, full bell lines, full steps...c'mon. Strike is already a component of the numerical grade, I don't see any reason to create these micro-area designations other than marketing, hype, resubmissions, etc., etc.



    Just my opinions.
    -Brandon
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  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,236 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doesn't quite look FB, so I compared with the pictures on CoinFacts, which are of a 65FB, 66FB, and 67FB. Of those three, the 65 and 67 are much stronger than the coin being auctioned. The 66 is the weakest of the three, but I can still make out the center split band. From the picture, I have to imagine the band on the auction lot. Perhaps this coin should have been called MS66* instead of FB, because of its uncharacteristically strong, but seemingly not full, strike.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah when photographing TPG attributed FSB's unless a monster struck full two bread loafs you need to rotate the reverse until the light shines right through the bands. Shot straight on a FB Merc at times will look less then virtually split.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    given that we are judging a picture with the light reflecting at the suspected band I would say it looks OK. given the scarcity of the date in Full Bands I would defer to NGC.
  • MonsterCoinzMonsterCoinz Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: brg5658

    Looks like a photo lighting problem to me. You can't tell anything from that photo.



    EDIT TO ADD: That being said the "premium" difference between a 1945 FB vs. no-FB is ridiculous.



    The PCGS price guide lists an MS67 as $65, and an MS67FB at $47,500. Is a micro-graded, very small area of the coin's detail really logically worth 73,000% more than a non-FB example?



    The arbitrary designations that have crept into USA collecting (largely to separate the "men" from the "boys" for the registry sets) are just silly. Full bands, full head, full bell lines, full steps...c'mon. Strike is already a component of the numerical grade, I don't see any reason to create these micro-area designations other than marketing, hype, resubmissions, etc., etc.



    Just my opinions.




    Couldn't have said it any better.
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  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a reason why many serious collectors have given up that hunt.
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since most of us are not at every auction live, we can only buy based on the image. I would never buy that coin as FB based on that image. If I need to hold it just right, under sunshine, using a microscope, to see the split, NO WAY I would buy it anyway!
  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NGC also has pictures here. They are also surprisingly bad as bands are washed out by the light.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One needs to remember, these grading companies only take a few seconds to make a determination on grades and designations that we might spend hours trying to clarify. Until you get it in hand that's the only way to know unless the pictures are more clear. Personally, I hate having to mail coins back so accurate photography is very important.


    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NGC is much stricter than our host on FB and FBL designations. I doubt that on an important coin like this they would provide that FB designation if the coin didn't deserve it. I'm putting my money on poor lighting/photography.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: brg5658
    Looks like a photo lighting problem to me. You can't tell anything from that photo.

    EDIT TO ADD: That being said the "premium" difference between a 1945 FB vs. no-FB is ridiculous.

    The PCGS price guide lists an MS67 as $65, and an MS67FB at $47,500. Is a micro-graded, very small area of the coin's detail really logically worth 73,000% more than a non-FB example?

    The arbitrary designations that have crept into USA collecting (largely to separate the "men" from the "boys" for the registry sets) are just silly. Full bands, full head, full bell lines, full steps...c'mon. Strike is already a component of the numerical grade, I don't see any reason to create these micro-area designations other than marketing, hype, resubmissions, etc., etc.

    Just my opinions.


    There must be a logical explanation........but won't espound on. I think it has something to do with the, "hot dang" effect.


    Leo image

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,070 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Wabbit2313

    From that image, no way it is FB.


    ill agree with that. again, id like to see it in hand first before making full judgement.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since most of us are not at every auction live, we can only buy based on the image.



    this is a good point and the follow-up should logically be --- If you are going to spend close to $50k on a coin it only makes sense to travel to the auction and view it in-hand. at the absolute least a trusted dealer should be a representative to view the coin.



    these grading companies only take a few seconds to make a determination on grades and designations

    I think the graders have an understanding that this is a difficult date/mm to find Full Bands in higher grades, they understand the strike issues better than we do.



    The arbitrary designations that have crept into USA collecting

    I believe the "Merc-a-teers" have been collecting these with Full Bands for a long time, just as diehard Jefferson Nickel collectors have sought Full Step coins for more than 50 years. all of these designations, whether we like them or not, tend to be a pretty good indicator of full strike.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My money is on the hobby. Where that's going is anyone's guess.


  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you are going to spend close to $50k on a coin it only makes sense to travel to the auction and view it in-hand.


    There is no chance that coin goes anywhere near 50K. If it gets 10K, I will be shocked.
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the last PCGS MS66 FB sold at Heritage. That IS FB.

    image
  • RollermanRollerman Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a MS67 1945 Mercury without the split band designation that seems to show split bands better than this specimen. It must be the light in the photograph, don't think NGC would make that kind of error on a potentially very high dollar coin.
    Pete
    "Ain't None of Them play like him (Bix Beiderbecke) Yet."
    Louis Armstrong
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Wabbit2313

    I would never buy that coin as FB based on that image. If I need to hold it just right, under sunshine, using a microscope, to see the split, NO WAY I would buy it anyway!


    I have to agree with that. If an average picture cannot reliably capture FBs I do not think I would be interested in it either. Especially as I get older and my vision declines. I don't think people who do like it are wrong but I personally would not be interested in buying that coin at what the current market values it at and I cannot easily see what I am paying for without a loupe in above average lighting.

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