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When was the peak period for coin collecting as a hobby?

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  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let's wait until after the Langbord trial and revisit this thread. image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Legend reporting on the Gold Kennedy fiasco was most interesting to me, and likely a bus load of "actors", too.
  • 2ndCharter2ndCharter Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm also one of those baby boomers that got started in the late '50s. In the early '60's, it seemed like every one of us paper boys (remember them!) was going through his change to plug his Whitman Folders. In 1964, my mother gave me a subscription to Coin World and, as I recall, the circulation figure for that time was 175,000.

    On another point, I disagree with Cladking - while I never found any of the "holy grails" in rolls from the bank, I did find such goodies as a 1913-S Lincoln in XF, amongst others. In early 1965, I found a 1955-P Franklin Half which I took to a coin show at the Elks Club in my hometown and a dealer offered me $7 for it. For a 15-year-old in 1965, that was serious money! I then took the $7 around the show and was able to plug some holes in the folders.

    Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA

  • CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭
    I would venture to say the number of coin collectors is directly proportional to the population.

    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just asked my next door neighbor, Mr. Wilson ... and he told me the 1960's

    image
  • JedPlanchetJedPlanchet Posts: 908 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: 291fifth
    Originally posted by: cladking
    Originally posted by: 291fifth
    In terms of numbers of collectors the early 1960's, until May, 1964, was the peak. There was widespread interest on the part of many in the general public. At one point the circulation of Coin World passed 160,000. Coin albums or folders could be found in virtually any department store and the large downtown department stores had very busy coin departments.



    Sounds about right. The hobby was beset by a series of blows from the mint and the government because it was unfairly blamed for the coin shortage. It started in 1964 with a date freeze and got much worse from there.

    The roll, bag, and proof set boom collapsed by 1965 because of the various actions of government and lots of people left the hobby. With nothing "collectable" in circulation there was no route into the hobby so very few new collectors came on board between 1965 and 1999 when the states quarters began.

    In the early '60's most of my friends collected coins.


    I lived in the Chicago area at that time and from late 1961, when I started collecting, to mid-1963 I used to go to the bank and get bags of cents and nickels (or rolls of dimes, and sometimes quarters or half dollars) to search. Some worthwhile coins could still be found in 1962 but by mid-1963 virtually everything of numismatic value was gone. I think some better coins could still be found in circulation in rural areas but that was not where I could ride my bicycle. I had a bike that allowed me to carry a knotted bag of cents or nickels suspended from the upper support bars. During the summer, when I wasn't in school, I would make as many as three trips a day to the bank to get a new bag to search, exchanging the bag I had already searched. Some of the tellers were helpful but others would give out bags they knew some other collector had already picked clean.



    Agreed with all this - better chances for circulation finds represent the golden age to me. It's tough enough to get any change period let alone interesting finds in circulation.
    Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think when the U.S. decided to remove all silver from dimes and quarters (and reduce silver in half dollars from 90% to 40%) in 1964-1965. It turned almost every kid and adult in America into a "coin treasure hunter/hoarder". I think this led to the great small change crisis/shortage of 1964-1965. Every family I knew had a pot of change on their floor or in their closet with silver coins in it. Not sure all these people could be called numismatists or even hobbyists but certainly you could call them coin collectors or at least coin hoarders. It certainly "jazzed up the interest" in people actually looking at their change and the coin dates. JMHO
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looking for the newest America The Beautiful Quarter ? Most here couldn't name it. Or the newest released presidential dollar.

    This is a product of the way commercials and commerce works. Everyone would rather buy a politician or a savior or gun to ward off evil spirits than plug a hole with a silly coin that costs more than face value. Let's face it, bullets are more interesting. I see guys paying $30 per ounce for silver bullets that couldn't kill a werewolf or zombie. image

    In 1976 the world was flooded with enough bicentennial coins to pay off the national debt. Americans hoarded them as if it was going to be the greatest collectible since a strawberry leaf cent. Then came the inception of the statehood quarters.

    A whole new generation of collectors were born. Maybe I'm blind. Yes, of course. I'm blind.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: WingedLiberty1957
    I just asked my next door neighbor, Mr. Wilson ... and he told me the 1960's

    image


    Don't know why I thought of SaintGuru with this post… image but I did.
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,405 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think in(sic) was in the 1960's.

    I think you're right.Every kid that I thought was worth hanging with (well almost every kid except for almost all girls) was a coin collector.

    It was not a good time to find one of the few 1909 SVDB's or 1914 D's that might have been in circulation at the time as the competition was especially fierce and widespread to fill those holes in the Whitman Wheat penny folder,1909-1940. As I recall,the 1909SVDB slot in my penny folder had a cardboard piece that said "RARE" on it.You betcha.1909SVDB was the rarest of the rare in those days,1962-64.

    The local pharmacist actually found a 1909SVDB in a bag that he had obtained out-of-state from a Nebraska bank.

    Those were the days.I did find a real nice (XF) 1922 D for my Wheat set.1922 D happens to be the lowest mintage year of all time for Lincoln cents. My find must have been a fluke,a curious twist in the laws of chance.I often pondered why some other kid didn't find that '22 D before me.image

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: mr1874

    I often pondered why some other kid didn't find that '22 D before me.image




    It's simple enough; it was found and was saved. This might have happened two or three times but then it was accidently spent.



    I keep telling people what a staggeringly high attrition rate there is on moderns and much of the reason is exactly the same as how that '22-D survived in XF; they look just like everyother coin in circulation. If you drop it or get it mixed up with pocket change then it's gone.



    It's far worse with moderns because if you took the '22-D in back in '62 the dealer would offer you a nice premium for it. Today if you take a 1969-D quarter with a type h reverse to a dealer he's going to tell you to spend it or he'll put it in the cash register after he buys it.



    Link



    Today the FED even rotates their coin stocks getting rid of the oldest coins first.



    There are many many thousands of nice high grade '22-D's but this isn't true of '69 quarters. Even though the '69 quarter is older and far scarcer today it will still suffer attrition because there aren't 20,000,000 collectors going through pocket change looking for old coins. There are virtually none at all.





    And this is the chief reason why the best days of coin collecting are still ahead of us.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • DeepCoinDeepCoin Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭
    I started collecting in the early 60s, 60/61 and from my perspective as a youth with very few funds, it was a time where you could still pull some interesting coins from circulation. I found a 1942/1 Mercury dime in change. I frequented coin shops and wished I could afford things like 1950 proof sets, demonstrating my lack of means. I remember on man who had a a shop with many St. Gaudens $20s, you could pick up most dates for $50 for $20 face at that time. Of course I am not speaking of the rarities and who knows the grade as in that era the dealer would beat you on grades instead of price. Your EF coin became AU after sold to a dealer. I became very disaffected by this practice and only came back to the hobby when certification removed this practice for the most part.

    Bottom line, there was more general interest, due to beautiful designs still being affordable from change. The lack of information kept the masses from knowing about the depth of the market and I suspect the high grade collectors were much fewer as a percentage of collectors. Coin World was the only pricing mechanism available to the public for the most part, unlike today.

    Certainly the high end coins sell for spectacular prices today in comparison, even with inflation factored in, so I suspect the number of deep pocket high end collectors have changed that market, but I had no information back then.
    Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Guide Book of United States Coins (The Official Red Book) yearly sales peaked in 1965 with over 1.2 million sold.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: davewesen
    The Guide Book of United States Coins (The Official Red Book) yearly sales peaked in 1965 with over 1.2 million sold.


    Many dealers had unopened boxes of that edition in their stores for years and years. The 1965 edition of the Red Book came out in June of 1964, just after the market went into a nosedive. The print run had been ordered when the market was still red hot. 60-D Small Date BU cent rolls anyone?

    All glory is fleeting.
  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many dealers had unopened boxes of that edition in their stores for years and years. The 1965 edition of the Red Book came out in June of 1964, just after the market went into a nosedive. The print run had been ordered when the market was still red hot. 60-D Small Date BU cent rolls anyone?


    Speaking of 1960 small dates and the frenzy ... how about this magazine ad from 1960 ...

    image
  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭
    TO: When do you think coin collecting as a hobby was at its peak in terms of the number of active collectors? ... I think in was in the 1960's. It probably could be tied to elimination of silver coinage.

    In the late 1950s and early 1960s, there were a vast number of people collecting coins out of change. As TO may be suggesting, a lot of these people were seeking silver coins. It seems that many of them were hoarding silver coins for economic, speculative or political reasons and were not really numismatists. Moreover, the collecting of coins from change is a different kind of hobby than buying scarce coins at coin shows, at physical or online stores, at auctions or from price lists though the mail. Are the participants in this thread counting someone who sorted silver coins from change in the same way as someone who assembles a set of Barber Half Dollars or Capped Bust half dimes in VF grades?

    Bayard: The population of this country has doubled since 1960. Even if the hobby is half as popular, the absolute number of collectors would be the same.

    Well, no, Bayard, there were more avenues of practical particpation then for collecting out of change. The number of 'out of change' collectors is a topic that is different from consideration of the number of people who spend more than $25 per coin. Suppose we equate $25 now to $5 in the early 1960s, for sake of argument, there are more people now who will spend more than $25 over face value per coin than there were people then who would spend more than $5 over face value per coin.

    Frog: While the world has certainly changed in the last century, I think it is a toss-up between the 60's and the 2000's.

    There were more numismatists in the 2000s rather than people just very casually collecting out of change as many were during the early to mid 1960s. As someone already pointed out, though, tens of millions of people collected State Quarters out of change, which further demonstrates my point that there was a large boom in coin collecting from 1997 or so to 2007 or so. There was a major increase in both categories, people collecting out of change and people buying scarce coins from coin dealers.

    The rise in the number of collectors of rare U.S. coins and the importance of the PCGS

    Mr. Jones: Numismatics was popular enough in the 1963 to 5 time frame to get coverage in the non numismatic publications. There were far more brick and mortar stores than there ever have been during my experience as a collector.

    From 1963 to 1965, much of the coverage in non-numismatic publications related to the so called coin shortage, controversial proposals to remove silver from coins (one of which was implemented), 1964 Kennedy halves, "1964 Peace Dollars." and other issues relating to then contemporary coins. Credit cards had yet to become a large factor and there were no ATM machines. Circulating coins were in the news; this does not mean that there were more people really interested in the 1960s. There were more people seriously interested and actively buying scarce coins between 2003 and 2007 than there were from 1959 to 1964.

    Also, I am not knocking the practice of collecting from change. Every few weeks, I pull a Wheat Cent from change. I find Jefferson Nickels from the 1930s and 1940s. Collecting relatively less-common coins from change is still practical to an extent.

    Collecting coins from change and spending $25+ per coin are really different hobbies. A total of people in both categories is statistic that calls for much additional explanation.
    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Analyst





    Collecting coins from change and spending $25+ per coin are really different hobbies. A total of people in both categories is statistic that calls for much additional explanation.





    I understand your point and to a limited extent, I even agree with it.



    However you're missing some very major and salient points. If the US government hadn't destroyed coin collecting and the coin market in 1964 those millions of collectors would not have been left with such a bad taste in their mouths and many more would have continued in the hobby. Of course the roll and mint set market would have collapsed anyway eventually but it wouldn't have been as devastating to the modern market and the entire coin market. It would have jusat passed as so many fads have passed.



    Say what you will but people collecting from pocket change can be real numismatists but the more important point isn't in definitions and perspectives but the fact that this is how many people start collecting and find the confidence to spend $25 on a single coin. Indeed, this is how I can be so confident that the real "glory days" of coin collecting is in the future as the states quarter collectors drift back into the hobby over the next few decades.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • I would say early to mid-1960s.

    At the age of 8, I started collecting Lincoln cents in 1963 after joining the Cub Scouts.

    Starting a coin collection was listed as an achievement in the Wolf Book, I believe, which would go toward helping me earn a gold or silver arrow. (Ten achievements were needed to earn an arrow.)

    Every kid I knew was in scouts and just about everyone had a pair of blue Whitman folders, Book One (1909-1940) and Book Two (1941-).

    Our dads helped out a lot. My dad owned a small corner drugstore and would bring home rolls of cents for my brother and I to look through. We would set up a card table and spend an hour or two looking through rolls. Man, that was fun. At first, half to two-thirds of the rolls contained wheat cents and an occasional steel cent. Since I grew up in the Midwest, s-mint coins of course were always scarce. I still remember the 1949-S being the most difficult coin to find in Book Two. By 1965, memorial cents outnumbered wheat cents about 4 to 1 in the rolls we searched.

    I still have these two books with the cents I collected at the time. They are probably the most cherished items in my collection.
    Robert
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know about "the hobby" in the larger sense, for me I've had two peaks so far, the first 1976-81 when I was in upper grade school through jr. high, and had some minor disposable income, and started my US type set, and then again in 1995-2006, the time between starting work and starting a family, when had a moderate disposable income and capital gains from the stock market, finished about 90% of my US type set and also a few US series. Really looking forward to the third peak, sometime after retirement and kids done with school (say 2030) when I will finally buy that 1793 copper, 1795 gold, and 1796 silver.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • 1999-2008 during the state quarters series and then silver hit 48.
  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭
    Quote by CladKing of one sentence by Analyst in long post above: Collecting coins from change and spending $25+ per coin are really different hobbies. A total of people in both categories is statistic that calls for much additional explanation


    CladKing: I understand your point and to a limited extent, I even agree with it. ... Say what you will but people collecting from pocket change can be real numismatists but the more important point isn't in definitions and perspectives but the fact that this is how many people start collecting and find the confidence to spend $25 on a single coin.


    1) Although gold coins really have not circulated in the U.S. to a large extent since the early 1920s and it was against the law for them to circulate after some point in 1934, there are many people who collect them. I would be careful about postulating a connection between those who do or did collect 'out of change' and those who spend more than $25 above face or melt per coin. While there is some correlation, it is often exaggerated.

    2) In my post above, I made it clear that I collect coins out of change. I set aside Wheat cents and pre-1960 Jefferson nickels. Indeed, Jeffersons from the 1940s show up in change fairly often. Even as late as 2010, I received an occasional war nickel in change. Also, I found one of the 1983 Philadelphia Mint quarters that CladKing raved about in other threads.

    So, I have no doubt that many people who collect out of change are "real numismatists." Even so, many others who collected 'out of change' are just very casual about their collecting habit and do not really wish to learn about coins. A total that includes the number of people collecting out of change in addition to people who spend substantial sums for coins just does not provide an indication of the level of interest in the hobby.

    Also, I believe that the hobby can thrive without people 'collecting out of change.'

    3) StockerGreen: 1999-2008 during the state quarters series ...

    As I explain in my article, there are a combination of factors that were responsible for the boom in coin collecting from 1997 to 2007 or so, not just the State Quarters. Improvements in the overall economy and the cyclical nature of coin markets in history must be considered. Moreover, the Eliasberg '96 and '97 sales and then the Pittman sales of '97 and '98 stimulated interest. Eliasberg had the all-time greatest collection and Pittman was one of the most famous collectors of all time.

    The rise in the number of collectors of rare U.S. coins and the importance of the PCGS

    StockerGreen: ... and then silver hit 48

    Although I am not a bullion expert, I would suggest that silver did not even reach $25 per ounce in 2008 and did not get to $48 or so until 2011. The correlation between bullion prices, rare coin prices and common base-metal coins is complicated and generally not large. Even the correlation between gold bullion levels and prices of generic gold coins is not nearly as high as most coin buyers think that it is or might be.

    03/16/11: Changes in Demand for Rare U.S. Coins So Far in 2011

    The Proper Value of Generic Gold Coins

    insightful10@gmail.com
    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me

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