Apmex ten oz bars

BigMoneyLewis · January 27, 2016 7:45PM

I noticed today that one of my ten oz Apmex silver bars that I recieved from Apmex this week is diffrent . It's a bit rougher around the edges , and is not as wide as the others .
Same thickness, same height, but about a 1/4" less in width (VERY noticable when side by side with another Apmex ten oz ) Also , the smaller lettering on the front as well as the reverse is alot more narrow . VERY noticable diffrences between the two bars .
So my question is , has any one else noticed this. Is it simply a change in the manufacturing process , or did some joker sell some fakes back to Apmex , and due to the large vol they handle, they got through the screening process ?

Lewis

piecesofme · January 27, 2016 8:09PM

A picture can be worth 1,000 words to help determine what you're asking.

BigMoneyLewis · January 28, 2016 4:49AM

Not sure how to post pics . One other diffrence in the bars , one has the lettering in the logo
stamped in to the bar, and on the other, the lettering is raised up .
I did contact Apmex this morning and they assured me every item of bullion incoming and outgoing is checked for authinticity . I was told they did use various mints to produce the bars and some minor diffrences in dimensions may occour . I did weigh the bars and they weigh the exact same (as far as I can tell on my postal scale) and both seem to be equaly diamagnetic on the 45 degree test . I feel better about it , but even after looking at dozens and dozens of pics of Apmex ten ounce bars on google images, I still have not yet seen another pic of a bar like the one in question.

Lewis

GRANDAM · January 28, 2016 8:42AM

Call APMEX and explain your concerns to them.

I am sure that if they think your bar sounds off they will want you to send it to them so they can check it out.

If they sold a bad bar they would want to know that and make it right.

AUandAG · January 28, 2016 10:42AM

Time to learn how to do a specific gravity test.

Let us know how it turns out.

bob

mariner67 · January 28, 2016 11:35AM

Originally posted by: BigMoneyLewis
Not sure how to post pics . One other diffrence in the bars , one has the lettering in the logo
stamped in to the bar, and on the other, the lettering is raised up .
I did contact Apmex this morning and they assured me every item of bullion incoming and outgoing is checked for authinticity . I was told they did use various mints to produce the bars and some minor diffrences in dimensions may occour . I did weigh the bars and they weigh the exact same (as far as I can tell on my postal scale) and both seem to be equaly diamagnetic on the 45 degree test . I feel better about it , but even after looking at dozens and dozens of pics of Apmex ten ounce bars on google images, I still have not yet seen another pic of a bar like the one in question.

Lewis

Very strange that one would have incuse relief and the other not.
That does not make any sense at all.

VanHalen · January 28, 2016 11:39AM

How much does it weigh? (I see you say it weighs the same) Physical differences occur with bars all the time. 1/4" sounds like a lot on a 10oz bar though.

Have you seen this page? APMEX

BAJJERFAN · January 28, 2016 11:39AM

Originally posted by: AUandAG

Time to learn how to do a specific gravity test.

Let us know how it turns out.

bob

Length x width x height divided by weight = density.

PerryHall · January 28, 2016 8:31PM

Originally posted by: BAJJERFAN

Originally posted by: AUandAG

Time to learn how to do a specific gravity test.

Let us know how it turns out.

bob

Length x width x height divided by weight = density.

By height, I assume you mean thickness. Where do you measure the thickness? It has raised rims and the thickness varies across the silver bar.

BAJJERFAN · January 28, 2016 11:21PM

Originally posted by: PerryHall

Originally posted by: BAJJERFAN

Originally posted by: AUandAG

Time to learn how to do a specific gravity test.

Let us know how it turns out.

bob

Length x width x height divided by weight = density.

By height, I assume you mean thickness. Where do you measure the thickness? It has raised rims and the thickness varies across the silver bar.

Yes, thickness.

I guess you'd need a micrometer to measure inside the rims. All you're looking at is a quick estimate. The average person wouldn't have the stuff to even determine SG, esp. for something the size of a 10 ounce bar. For all intents and purposes the value is the same.

BigMoneyLewis · January 29, 2016 1:05AM

OK , I just took some real good detailed pics of a side by side comparison , but I do not have any way to post them . Perhaps if someone could e-mail me , I can e-mail someone the two pics, and they could post for me ?
gregward@mchsi.com

Thanks,
Lewis

BAJJERFAN · January 29, 2016 1:48AM

Originally posted by: BigMoneyLewis

OK , I just took some real good detailed pics of a side by side comparison , but I do not have any way to post them . Perhaps if someone could e-mail me , I can e-mail someone the two pics, and they could post for me ?

gregward@mchsi.com

Thanks,

Lewis

email sent

BigMoneyLewis · January 29, 2016 2:20AM

Bajjerfan , I just e-mailed the pics.
Thanks for your help !

Lewis

johnny9434 · January 29, 2016 2:30AM

Originally posted by: piecesofme
A picture can be worth 1,000 words to help determine what you're asking.

BAJJERFAN · January 29, 2016 2:32AM

Originally posted by: BigMoneyLewis

Bajjerfan , I just e-mailed the pics.

Thanks for your help !

Lewis

Will post them as soon as PhotoBucket is back from lunch.

BAJJERFAN · January 29, 2016 2:58PM

VanHalen · January 29, 2016 3:25PM

Were both those bars sold as "new"? I agree it looks suspect but APMEX has been having that type bar made for many years. What is the exact weight in grams?

mariner67 · January 29, 2016 4:17PM

Wow, really different bars.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Thanks for loading the pix bajjerfan.

Wingsrule · January 29, 2016 8:25PM

One of the bars is longer than the other. Some crude measurements (I know, you never scale a photo or drawing) show there is less than a 1% difference in surface area between the two. The difference in thickness would be almost imperceptible for the bars to be equal in overall volume.

PerryHall · January 29, 2016 9:53PM

I've noticed the companies that make silver bars sometimes make changes in the style of their bars. Counterfeiters will normally buy a real bar and use it to make a mold or to cast a die that they can use to make an exact copy so I doubt this bar is fake. Weigh it to see if it's 10 oz Troy. Also, try the ring test---balance the bar on the tip of your finger and tap it with a pencil while holding it next to your ear. Silver should have a distinctive melodious ring. If it doesn't, it may still be 999 silver but may have an air or other flaw which is not unusual in mass produced silver bars. Do a google search since there are many you tube videos that describe other non-destructive tests to authenticate silver bars.

DrBuster · January 29, 2016 10:43PM

Trying to jog the memory....wasn't there a fake bar thread a long while ago about these?? The font differences have me thinking that, but I imagine these are fine.

PerryHall · January 29, 2016 11:48PM

Originally posted by: DrBuster

Trying to jog the memory....wasn't there a fake bar thread a long while ago about these?? The font differences have me thinking that, but I imagine these are fine.

Most fake silver bars are the 1 oz size. They are thicker that their genuine counterparts to bring their weight up to a full ounce because they are silver plated brass which is less dense than silver.

tincup · January 30, 2016 12:02AM

Thanks for posting pics. Definitely very curious. I do not have any of these bars to compare to, but if I had received that one that is so different, I would certainly be questioning it also.

PerryHall · January 30, 2016 12:07AM

Did you send your pics to APMEX customer service so they can evaluate them as to their authenticity? I'm thinking they changed producers and the bars from each producer is somewhat different.

BigMoneyLewis · January 30, 2016 12:10AM

I am probably just concerned for no reason , and the bar is probably just fine. However,
in this day and age , you have to stay on your toes. I soptted some fake 1 oz sunshine bars at a local bullion dealer last year , told the dealer , and he ran a couple tests and said I was right . Had I not just read the diagnostic characteristics of the fake 1 oz Sunshine bar only a couple weeks previous, I would have bought them not knowing. They got past a bullion dealer that does this all day long every day .
Back to the Apmex 10 oz bar . One thing I should note for those that may not know .
The graphics on any 10 oz Apmex like this are "portrait" style on the obverse , but "landscape" style on the reverse . I mention that so their is no confusion about the
deminsions of the bar . Both bars are the exact same height (as looking at the front)
but one is approx 1/4" less wide . The one that is less wide does appear to be slightly thicker , and that would explain how they both could weight the same despite the diffrence
in width . The only scale I have is a postal scale , it does not have troy oz, but before I removed these from plastic , they both weighed 11.2 oz . Holding the bar at about a 45 degree angle and placing a rare earth magnet at the top , it slides down slowly , just as it should , however ,copper , zink and brass are also diamagnetic so that test is not fool proof. I did contact Apmex by e-mail twice . The first time to inquire about the diffrence in dimensions . They responded about using more than one refinery to produce bars , and a slight diffrence in dimension was nothing to be alarmed about . They also assured me if it came from Apmex, it is genuine . The next day I e-mailed the two pics to them in hopes of getting more info, such as when these other bars were made , etc. They e-mailed back a 1 800 number for me to call, and when I did I got a young lady who had no idea what I was even talking about , but again re assured me that if it came from Apmex directly, which it did, then it was genuine . So ...if nothing else , this has been a learning experience , and has brought to light the fact that their are some ten oz bars out there that have very diffrent design characteristics than the normal .These are obviously somewhat obscure
as I have still not seen a pic of this second style anywhere on the ole "interweb " despite having looked at images of a hundred or so 10 oz Apmex bars .

Lewis

Baley · January 30, 2016 12:52AM

Congrats on receiving one of the "rare" types, which is worth more than a common one, provided you can get someone to pay you more for it.

PerryHall · January 30, 2016 1:23AM

Anyone serious about buying silver bars should invest in an electronic scale. They are surprisingly accurate and extremely inexpensive for what they do. You can find them on eBay and Amazon. Also, many coin dealers that sell coin supplies have them for sale. Also, it's not unusual for a given brand to have numerous designs and varieties. For example, go to allengelhard.com and check the Engelhard 10 oz bars. Engelhard made silver bars from 1982 to 1987 which is only 7 years yet there are dozens of designs and varieties for their 10 oz bars.

BAJJERFAN · January 30, 2016 1:29AM

Originally posted by: mariner67

Wow, really different bars.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Thanks for loading the pix bajjerfan.

PB was still out to lunch as of late last night. Props to collective coin for coming to the rescue. See my sigline if anyone is interested in giving CC a try.

Apmex ten oz bars

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