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Crossovers: Do you really need to break open the case to get a fair shot?

kencopekencope Posts: 416 ✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I recently submitted 49 of my more valuable or higher grade cards that were in BGS/BVG or SGC holders to cross them over into PSA holders. I did a minimum grade of the equivalent grade for each. Just got the online results. 3 of the 49 made the cut. 3.

I completely understand that each company wants to trumpet that they have very high quality standards, but it just seems unfathomable to me that of a completely random sample, only 6% would receive the same PSA grade.

Anyone else have much experience/thoughts on the issue? I'm having a hard time not feeling like there was some bias involved......I'm wondering if I take 49 PSA 10s and submit them for BGS crossover whether I'll just get the same results due to each company wanting to maintain that they have higher standards than the other.

Not posting this to demean PSA in any way, more just inquiring as to what success averages are for crossovers and if I'll get better results by cracking them out instead of submitting them in the card holder from the other company.

Thanks in advance for your opinions!

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    DM23HOFDM23HOF Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my experience, the answer is yes. Better to let it be strictly and purely about the card and the graders' eyes-- which is subjective enough as it is, rather than let corporate politics enter the equation.

    Instagram: mattyc_collection

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    DrFongDrFong Posts: 326
    image
    All your money won't another minute buy.
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    UncleTwoPillowUncleTwoPillow Posts: 257
    I've thought the equation has always been SGC minus one equals PSA. I've seen a few BVG that would cross equally. Which of your 3 made the cut?
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    ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭
    ive had success crossing bgs 9.5s with no 9 subs to PSA 10s with no problem
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
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    kencopekencope Posts: 416 ✭✭
    All three that crossed were 1984 Topps SGC 98s. Had 10 Andrew Luck Contenders BGS 9.5s and not one of them crossed over, although I don't recall what the subs were on them.



    I'm tempted to call and see if I can get a "review" by another grader before they ship them back to me. Grades just posted online, but I haven't received the "your order is complete" email yet. Appreciate the opinions thus far.
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    jfkheatjfkheat Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are these all modern cards? A month or so ago I submitted two 1954 red Heart cards for crossover. Both were SGC graded, an 8 and a 9. I requested minimum grades of 8 and 8.5. They crossed to the same grade that SGC had.

    James
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    thebaseballcardkidthebaseballcardkid Posts: 432 ✭
    Yes this is subjective but I would think there is more uniformity with modern cards. Especially the higher the grade.
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    MeatloafMeatloaf Posts: 1,308
    I had problems crossing BGS 9.4 MJ rookies and other modern BGS to PSA. My success rate of getting the same grade is less than 20%. And I have never received a bump to a high grade. Not saying there is anything wrong with this, but you just need to be careful. Most of my cross were not crack outs. That may have something to do with it.
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    thebaseballcardkidthebaseballcardkid Posts: 432 ✭
    Originally posted by: DrFong
    image


    I disagree. I would much rather have a PSA holder. For looks, value, and reputation.
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    UncleTwoPillowUncleTwoPillow Posts: 257
    I think the doctor has prescribed the other 46.
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    80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: thebaseballcardkid
    Originally posted by: DrFong
    image


    I disagree. I would much rather have a PSA holder. For looks, value, and reputation.


    Problem is he submitted 49 cards and only has 3 PSA holders.

    OP - my guess is if you cracked you would be closer to 50% cross. Guys here have gone as many as 2 grades up on crack and submit on some pretty high value cards - no way no how that happens in a competitor slab.

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    DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,220 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: ThoseBackPages
    ive had success crossing bgs 9.5s with no 9 subs to PSA 10s with no problem


    HOLY CRAP! An Eric sighting!!!! Where the hell you been my friend?

    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
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    kencopekencope Posts: 416 ✭✭
    No, was a mix of both vintage and modern. Had some '58 and '56 Topps BB, Gretzky rookies, MJ rookies, the Lucks, and a slew of '78, '81, and '84 FB.

    Will let the experiment continue at another time.......thanks for everyone's input!

    Originally posted by: jfkheat
    Are these all modern cards? A month or so ago I submitted two 1954 red Heart cards for crossover. Both were SGC graded, an 8 and a 9. I requested minimum grades of 8 and 8.5. They crossed to the same grade that SGC had.
    James


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    DrFongDrFong Posts: 326
    Originally posted by: thebaseballcardkid......I would much rather have a PSA holder. For looks, value, and reputation.


    No kidding. The flushing of the money was for using the review process.

    All your money won't another minute buy.
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    BaltimoreYankeeBaltimoreYankee Posts: 2,904 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dr Fong - After all these years, I just realized the Kansas line in your signature could have been written by Yoda.
    Daniel
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    mb2005mb2005 Posts: 165 ✭✭
    I haven't tried to cross over a lot, but when I do, I try to submit cards that are not borderline for the grade. Example below is a 1963 Aaron that was an SGC 88, with very good centering and strong corners, but clearly some wear on the corners. I thought this was a solid 8, and worth sending into PSA. It came back an 8, which is what I expected. (the SGC part of the scan below isn't very good). Cards that I think are borderline I don't bother sending in.

    image
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    ugaskidawgugaskidawg Posts: 882 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: thebaseballcardkid





    I disagree. I would much rather have a PSA holder. For looks, value, and reputation.




    I like to have things in PSA holders too, but I like SGC as well. The black border makes a card pop. It also shows the slight variations in wear and quality, which is a bit harder in PSA holders. With that said, I have very little interest in my BVG/BGS/BCCG card holders. I'm not breaking them out or crossing them over, but I'm not submitting to them either.



    In a way, I wish that PSA and SGC would just enter an agreement. More or less, they are the top two and most consistent in the industry. It would be great if they had a shared registry. With that said, i know it is a business and they are competitors, but it would be nice for the collectors. Regardless of the company though, as they always say, buy the card not the grade.



    I just got a couple of 48 Leaf back from SGC and the cards are a thing of beauty in those holders. All of my 48s are in SGC holders except one - Robinson rookie. You put the Robinson next to the Spahn and Rizzuto I just got back, and the SGC cards look incredible, the PSA seems more washed out.



    Maybe I should amend and say that the vintage odd size cards look the best in SGC holders (to me). For standard size post war cards, PSA looks better. I think the black frames more of the holder for the smaller cards, whereas PSA has a lot of clear plastic for such a tiny odd-sized card.



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    LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, why would you influence a graders opinion with another graders opinion?
    Who is the Golf Card Guy?
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    RyanAdmirerRyanAdmirer Posts: 632 ✭✭
    I say absolutely. I have had several crackouts jump 2 grades, while I've even had a 5 jump to a 9 once. And those were all already graded by PSA. I don't think any of them would've jumped at least 2 grades unless I'd cracked them out in the first place.
    I'm a big Nolan Ryan fan OK???!!!
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    amp0909amp0909 Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    About a year ago I submitted 10 cards in BGS holders graded 9.5 to PSA for a cross over. Only 1 crossed to a PSA 10. The rest didn't make the cut. I only submitted those with high subgrades. They all had 9.5 subgrades. I did submit one BVG 9 that didn't cross to PSA 9. I had a 2000 Sp Authentic Tom Brady RC with subgrades of 10, 9.5, 9.5, 9.5. It came back not meeting min grade of PSA 10. Was bummed out about that. Two came back stating evidence of trimming which was not correct because I pulled the cards myself at a show and sent them in the BGS for grading that same day. These were all high dollar cards. I don't want to take the risk of cracking them out.
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    kencopekencope Posts: 416 ✭✭
    This is my hesitation in cracking them out of the BGS case. The risk is that PSA still doesn't give the BGS 9.5s a 10, and then you send them into BGS again and all of a sudden it's a 9 instead.

    But, will take a look at everything when it comes back, be selective, and make a decision.


    Originally posted by: amp0909
    About a year ago I submitted 10 cards in BGS holders graded 9.5 to PSA for a cross over. Only 1 crossed to a PSA 10. The rest didn't make the cut. I only submitted those with high subgrades. They all had 9.5 subgrades. I did submit one BVG 9 that didn't cross to PSA 9. I had a 2000 Sp Authentic Tom Brady RC with subgrades of 10, 9.5, 9.5, 9.5. It came back not meeting min grade of PSA 10. Was bummed out about that. Two came back stating evidence of trimming which was not correct because I pulled the cards myself at a show and sent them in the BGS for grading that same day. These were all high dollar cards. I don't want to take the risk of cracking them out.


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