Probably just semantics, but isn't "FASC" redundant on a vending box?
detroitfan2
Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭✭
Just curious on your thoughts on this topic. If you were to purchase an unopened vending box from a reliable source, wouldn't it be with the understanding that either (a) the lid was never flipped open, or (b), if the lid was flipped open, it was to "authenticate" that the cards inside had never been removed or otherwise searched?
In other words, the box would be identical to a vending box from a sealed case.
If I understand correctly, buying a vending box that is not FASC means you are purchasing something that the seller is 99% sure is "unopened", while buying a FASC vending box means you are purchasing a box that is 100% sure to be unopened.
OK, I'll admit, it's a slow day for me . . .
In other words, the box would be identical to a vending box from a sealed case.
If I understand correctly, buying a vending box that is not FASC means you are purchasing something that the seller is 99% sure is "unopened", while buying a FASC vending box means you are purchasing a box that is 100% sure to be unopened.
OK, I'll admit, it's a slow day for me . . .
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Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I guess the other thing about FASC is in theory it would guarantee that you have the exact "case odds" at getting a given card. For example, if percentage wise 16 of the 24 vending boxes in a 1980 vending case contained a Henderson rookie and someone opened 2 boxes and got a Henderson in each, they would be smart to then sell the remaining boxes, as the odds of the Henderson would be much smaller. Although I suppose those boxes could also technically be FASC.
That could happen (hypothetically) whether the boxes are FASC or not.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I guess the other thing about FASC is in theory it would guarantee that you have the exact "case odds" at getting a given card. For example, if percentage wise 16 of the 24 vending boxes in a 1980 vending case contained a Henderson rookie and someone opened 2 boxes and got a Henderson in each, they would be smart to then sell the remaining boxes, as the odds of the Henderson would be much smaller. Although I suppose those boxes could also technically be FASC.
That could happen (hypothetically) whether the boxes are FASC or not.
Actually that's a good point. If I bought 10 FASC boxes and opened 2 and got the "hits", I'd be smart to sell the other boxes. That being said, buying them directly from BBCE as FASC knowing that they originated from BBCE would eliminate this.
I guess the other thing about FASC is in theory it would guarantee that you have the exact "case odds" at getting a given card. For example, if percentage wise 16 of the 24 vending boxes in a 1980 vending case contained a Henderson rookie and someone opened 2 boxes and got a Henderson in each, they would be smart to then sell the remaining boxes, as the odds of the Henderson would be much smaller. Although I suppose those boxes could also technically be FASC.
That could happen (hypothetically) whether the boxes are FASC or not.
Um..I know your the resident expert for unopened her on the boards, but your comment makes no sense. If Steve is wrapping the FASC vending boxes right out of the case, then your "case odds" for a hit have NOT been marginalized. If Steve is selling "sealed" vending boxes, they could be from a case that someone already got the "hits" then had the boxes wrapped/authenticated (but they of course cannot be FASC now)
IMO, FASC carries a big premium for me with all the BS and crap that is out there; and with the sequencing and cherry picking that has occurred.
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
I guess the other thing about FASC is in theory it would guarantee that you have the exact "case odds" at getting a given card. For example, if percentage wise 16 of the 24 vending boxes in a 1980 vending case contained a Henderson rookie and someone opened 2 boxes and got a Henderson in each, they would be smart to then sell the remaining boxes, as the odds of the Henderson would be much smaller. Although I suppose those boxes could also technically be FASC.
Exactly. My guess is over 75% of the un-authenticated unopened is either sloppy seconds or fake. and non-FASC BBCE sealed product probably has a decent percentage coming from a source where the hits already occurred.
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
I guess the other thing about FASC is in theory it would guarantee that you have the exact "case odds" at getting a given card. For example, if percentage wise 16 of the 24 vending boxes in a 1980 vending case contained a Henderson rookie and someone opened 2 boxes and got a Henderson in each, they would be smart to then sell the remaining boxes, as the odds of the Henderson would be much smaller. Although I suppose those boxes could also technically be FASC.
That could happen (hypothetically) whether the boxes are FASC or not.
Um..I know your the resident expert for unopened her on the boards, but your comment makes no sense. If Steve is wrapping the FASC vending boxes right out of the case, then your "case odds" for a hit have NOT been marginalized. If Steve is selling "sealed" vending boxes, they could be from a case that someone already got the "hits" then had the boxes wrapped/authenticated (but they of course cannot be FASC now)
IMO, FASC carries a big premium for me with all the BS and crap that is out there; and with the sequencing and cherry picking that has occurred.
You are misunderstanding my point. Of course, if you are buying a box FASC that Steve himself is breaking down, then yes, of course, you will have a fair shot at any key card, but that same FASC box, once purchased from BBCE, will not necessarily retain (by your own argument) that same guarantee if offered again individually on the secondary market at a later date, either, as a buyer could hypothetically decide to sell his FASC box after seeing others pull the "hits" from their boxes~or, more possibly, after seeing the cards coming out of a couple of the other boxes as OC, will sell his boxes knowing that his cards are very likely to be OC, as well (we have all seen that phenomenon firsthand with the 75 mini case breaks). In short, unless you are buying a vending box that is FASC AND being sold at the time the original case is being broken, there is no guarantee that a box FASC will have better odds at yielding any particular card, or that the cards will be nicely centered, for that matter, as well. Furthermore, there is NO sequencing with individual vending boxes, and by definition, they cannot be "cherrypicked" without being searched~yes, you SHOULD pull multiple examples of any particular card from a CASE, but individual vending boxes, even FASC, will often contain multiple examples of one card and none of another. I have pulled terrific cards from unwrapped vending boxes that are legit~and that was the basis of my original point~that paying a large premium for a vending box that is FASC is not necessarily any better than paying less for any generic, but authentic vending box (especially, if you are planning to open the box). For me, it is more important to know that the vending box is authentic and that it has not been searched, than whether it is FASC. Now, as I also said earlier, the level of confidence that Steve provides for a buyer by wrapping a vending box is worth a premium, if you don't trust your ability to determine if a box is authentic or not. And I will agree that purchasing a vending box FASC at the time the actual case is being broken down by Steve IS the best method by which to acquire an authentic vending box.
In addition to all this, Steve does not wrap loose vending boxes unless they come directly from Fritsch~so your scenario of someone being lucky enough to pull all the key cards from a case and then sending the remaining loose boxes to Steve to wrap would not be possible, anyway.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.