Stolen PCGS Coins
TigersFan2
Posts: 1,442 ✭✭
If someone's PCGS coins are stolen (police report filed and documented), I assume that they would notify PCGS of the cert numbers so that PCGS marks them as stolen in their database. Safe assumption?
My question is this... If someone is selling a stolen PCGS coin on Ebay, would the cert verification indicate the PCGS coin has been stolen or would the cert verification look no different than any other valid cert verification?
I've always wondered if doing the cert verification on a coin I'm interested in buying helps protect me from buying a stolen coin.
Granted that a thief would be smarter to crack out of the slabs any stolen coins...
Email Answer from PCGS
We would need the Police Report and other information to flag the certs as Stolen in our database. On Cert Verification, the Cert would not be available to view, it would not state that it was a stolen coin. I would recommend not buying coins that cannot be verified on our Verification page. There could be a number of reasons that a cert cannot be verified, being stolen would be one of these.
Comments
There is a old saying about that word.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
I have a question I've often wondered about as I purchase PCGS coins on Ebay.
If someone's PCGS coins are stolen (police report filed and documented), I assume that they would notify PCGS of the cert numbers so that PCGS marks them as stolen in their database. Safe assumption?
My question is this... If someone is selling a stolen PCGS coin on Ebay, would the cert verification indicate the PCGS coin has been stolen or would the cert verification look no different than any other valid cert verification?
I've always wondered if doing the cert verification on a coin I'm interested in buying helps protect me from buying a stolen coin.
Granted that a thief would be smarter to crack out of the slabs any stolen coins...
PCGS may very well record a coin as stolen if such was reported, but I seriously doubt that they would state that publicly.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I guess that "What I learned in 2015" thread is relevant here. I guess I've learned is that asking a question on this forum can receive a bunch of irrelevant responses that never attempt to answer the question.
Actually, everyone answered your question. We all told you, in one form or another, not to assume anything. That directly answers your first question. Your second question hinges largely upon the actions of the first question. If this does not satisfy you, perhaps an email to PCGS is what you should consider.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I would not ASSume anything.
There is a old saying about that word.
Yes it makes a ____ out of u and me. They will break out the coins and sell them.
I guess that "What I learned in 2015" thread is relevant here. I guess I've learned is that asking a question on this forum can receive a bunch of irrelevant responses that never attempt to answer the question.
Actually, everyone answered your question. We all told you, in one form or another, not to assume anything. That directly answers your first question. Your second question hinges largely upon the actions of the first question. If this does not satisfy you, perhaps an email to PCGS is what you should consider.
No. Telling me to not assume anything doesn't answer the first question at all. It simply places more importance on whatever the answer is to the first question. Basically, I received a bunch of smart-a$$ answers from people who don't know the answer but feel inclined to answer regardless.
Previoius Forum Question
Is it necessary that some forum members feel the need to respond to questions with rudeness?
Don't assume anything.
We would need the Police Report and other information to flag the certs as Stolen in our database. On Cert Verification, the Cert would not be available to view, it would not state that it was a stolen coin. I would recommend not buying coins that cannot be verified on our Verification page. There could be a number of reasons that a cert cannot be verified, being stolen would be one of these.
I don't see how this is helpful: I would want my coins to be entered in a registry set so that the coin could be recovered. If the coin does not show up in the Cert Verification it tells the new owner to crack out and resubmit, thus masking it's identity forever.
Answer from PCGS edited to my original post. And my assumption was 100% correct.
No, your assumption was not 100% correct. Your assumption was that folks would notify stolen coins to PCGS so that PCGS could flag them in their database. To be a 100% correct assumption you would need everyone who has had PCGS-certified coins stolen to not only generate a police report, but to also report these losses to PCGS along with the police report. Sadly, this does not always happen.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Email Answer from PCGS
We would need the Police Report and other information to flag the certs as Stolen in our database. On Cert Verification, the Cert would not be available to view, it would not state that it was a stolen coin. I would recommend not buying coins that cannot be verified on our Verification page. There could be a number of reasons that a cert cannot be verified, being stolen would be one of these.
I don't see how this is helpful: I would want my coins to be entered in a registry set so that the coin could be recovered. If the coin does not show up in the Cert Verification it tells the new owner to crack out and resubmit, thus masking it's identity forever.
I think it's helpful from the viewpoint of being a buyer of Ebay coins. I was fearing that nothing would be done thus a stolen coin would become identified as stolen to me when I attempt to add it to my registry set and would then discover it to be in someone else's registry set. If someone has their PCGS coins stolen and follows the protocol of filing a police report and submitting the police report to PCGS, then the cert wouldn't verify and as a potential buyer, it would be a red flag to not buy the coin.
Your statementn that a coin not showing up in the cert verification tells the new owner to crack it out assumes the crook or even the new owner knows to do a cert verification. But a crook will probably sell the PCGS coins quicker than the legwork can be done to get the police report and file it with PCGS. Probably by the time that happens, a neutral party is holding the stolen coin.
Answer from PCGS edited to my original post. And my assumption was 100% correct.
No, your assumption was not 100% correct. Your assumption was that folks would notify stolen coins to PCGS so that PCGS could flag them in their database. To be a 100% correct assumption you would need everyone who has had PCGS-certified coins stolen to not only generate a police report, but to also report these losses to PCGS along with the police report. Sadly, this does not always happen.
po-ta-to, po-tah-to. If someone has their PCGS coins stolen and they don't bother to file a police report and send it to PCGS, then they've voluntarily given up the protection/help PCGS can provide and have no grounds to stand on should another owner down the road add the coins to his registry set.
Answer from PCGS edited to my original post. And my assumption was 100% correct.
No, your assumption was not 100% correct. Your assumption was that folks would notify stolen coins to PCGS so that PCGS could flag them in their database. To be a 100% correct assumption you would need everyone who has had PCGS-certified coins stolen to not only generate a police report, but to also report these losses to PCGS along with the police report. Sadly, this does not always happen.
po-ta-to, po-tah-to. If someone has their PCGS coins stolen and they don't bother to file a police report and send it to PCGS, then they've voluntarily given up the protection/help PCGS can provide and have no grounds to stand on should another owner down the road add the coins to his registry set.
Just because a coin collector does not file a police report or does not send a police report to PCGS does not mean that they ever forfeit their right to recover the coin, regardless if someone else has possession and places the coin in a Registry set. Burglaries/larcenies do happen where the victim does not discover the theft for an extended period of time.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Answer from PCGS edited to my original post. And my assumption was 100% correct.
No, your assumption was not 100% correct. Your assumption was that folks would notify stolen coins to PCGS so that PCGS could flag them in their database. To be a 100% correct assumption you would need everyone who has had PCGS-certified coins stolen to not only generate a police report, but to also report these losses to PCGS along with the police report. Sadly, this does not always happen.
po-ta-to, po-tah-to. If someone has their PCGS coins stolen and they don't bother to file a police report and send it to PCGS, then they've voluntarily given up the protection/help PCGS can provide and have no grounds to stand on should another owner down the road add the coins to his registry set.
Just because a coin collector does not file a police report or does not send a police report to PCGS does not mean that they ever forfeit their right to recover the coin, regardless if someone else has possession and places the coin in a Registry set. Burglaries/larcenies do happen where the victim does not discover the theft for an extended period of time.
Unfortunately the issues of possession will come into play and the person now holding the coin may have stronger rights than the person who had the coin stolen if no report was done. If this were not the case many coins could be said to have been stolen a significant time ago and you just noticed, it does not work that way.
It could also mean the previous owner did not remove it from their registry before selling. I have had this happen to me a few times . In that case , Pcgs will notify the previous owner to delete it . They should actually make it pop up as STOLEN in the verification as opposed to nothing.
I don't think it works that way.
According to my response from PCGS, if a person provides PCGS with the police report that the coin is stolen, PCGS will mark the coin stolen in the cert database and the coin cert # will show up as invalid if anyone enters the cert # into the cert verification.
If the person doesn't notify PCGS of the coin theft with the police report, PCGS has no knowledge of the theft and the coin would remain in the person's registry set and it would show up in the cert verification. In this situation, the new owner would first have the auto email generated to the previous owner to remove it from their registry set and in a couple of days if not removed, the new owner could email scans of the front and back of the slab to PCGS and they'll remove it from the previous owner's registry set so the new owner can add it to his registry set. In this situation, PCGS wouldn't get involved in any theft claim because they wouldn't have that knowledge. The original owner would likely be SOL if no police report documentation of the theft.
True like the original posters have said that there could be a time delay between when a PCGS coin is stolen and when it's discovered stolen, but it's still the responsibility of the original owner to file the police report and do the proper procedures of notify PCGS.
This topic has become somewhat like the proverbial "dog with a bone," or like "beating a dead horse," or " going round and round," or something. Regardless, TigersFan2 has got plenty of grit. I like that.
It's all the picteals that I now collect.
I think I'll have a *****tail. .