1869 German Taler Bavaria-Madonna, thoughts/opinions?

mercurydimeguy

OK gang, if I'm flooding the board with coins than I apologize in advance



I go through spurts of buying them based on opportunity, and it tends to be "lumpy" (e.g. feast or famine). I've also had more than usual amount of already slabbed coins (NGC) for whatever reason, but it's not intentional as I've bought many of the coins for my 1869 set raw, and then got slabbed by PCGS.



This is another coin (like the Mexico 8 Real) that's in an older NGC holder, graded MS65. Based on my experience, I don't see PCGS ever putting this into an MS65 holder (I'll reserve my opinion as to why), but I think it should grade a 63 no brainer. Truth be told it has such amazing eye appeal in hand, I think it got bumped up by NGC and might not really be a true GEM.



Disclaimer: No matter how much PlastX I used to try to rid this slab of streaks/scratches, I couldn't remove all of them so there are still like 30%+ distortions that show up on in the image that are due to the slab (urgh!) Plus you know the older NGC holders, the round area of the white insert is very fat and the coin slides up/down/tilts, which is the case here...net-net, it was REALLY difficult to image this coin due to all the slab problems (I wish it was raw, but that goes to my question here)...



I am thinking that this is a PC63 (and I paid $200 for it accordingly), and if you think it's at least that, I'd love to crack it to image it and send it in with the raw World coins I'm sending in (and skip paying the cross-over premium, which adds up). If you think it's a problem coin that I should send in to PCGS for cross at ANY in its NGC65 slab, then I'd love to get your feedback on this as well. The caveat is, of course, it's terribly difficult to grade from images and especially ones where the slab really creates more issues than actually exist.



OK, a bit long winded, but thank you for your input...

JCMhouston

I don't see any reason it isn't a 65? Some of the black spots are a little distracting on the obverse but I've seen a lot worse in a P65 holder.

Zohar

That's a nice looking original coin.

marcmoish

From what you write, and what your objective is here - on this one I WOULD send this to PCGS for cross at any grade, and you might be surprised.

-I like it too.

-Again in hand something might present differently than what we see but if you'll live with a 63 than heck.... and an under-graded example is always cool.

lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: mercurydimeguy

OK gang, if I'm flooding the board with coins than I apologize in advance

Umm... I thought that's what the forum was for?



Keep 'em comin'. It's nice to see the Darkside forum alive and not a ghost town.



As to your Bavarian thaler, I'm not used to seeing them from the 19th century. I've only had the 18th century ones. It's interesting to see how the design evolved.



Edited to add: I'd certainly think it would be worthwhile to send for crossover at any grade. If you're prepared to lose two points, I don't foresee crossover going much worse than that. Unless it ended up in a Gennie/Details holder somehow, which it shouldn't? And, as marcmoish mentioned, you might end up pleasantly surprised.

amwldcoin

Hard to see that coin losing 2 points!

mercurydimeguy

Grade posted today, it did cross at MS65. Can't wait to get better images of the coin as it was impossible to image in the old NGC slab.



Thanks for all of your input.

Broadstruck

The ear wax is distracting, still I'd much rather have this then most of German coins that are dipped bright white prior to TPG.