Opinions on 1869 Mexico 8 Real, NGC MS62, cross or crack?

mercurydimeguy

No need to guess grade, this one here is in an old NGC 62 holder.



My question is -- will this cross at 62, or should I crack it, or ??



I want it in PCGS plastic but I've been really hammered on "cross at any" lately, and not that this is an expensive coin, but do you think this will cross as UNC? Or should I crack it and send it in raw for a better chance to be UNC?



Net-net, will the cross at any on this coin actually positively bias the graders into an UNC holder rather than sending in raw and getting another MS62 to AU55 downgrade (like before)?



Thanks for the expertise/opinion...

coinkat

I would not crack it out- I would leave it as it is

1960NYGiants

Since you are building a PCGS 1869 set then I recommend crack it out 1st.

I thing it will cross.

Tookybandit

I would send it in, in the NGC holder.

marcmoish

imho it won't cross but I might be off.



If it looks in hand lustrous, and pleasantly toned than the EA will carry the 62 grade along but from what I see - there is def wear on all the high points, a plethora of chatter very obvious on the cap, rim dings ...that I'd just leave it as is.

jdmern

I think if it was sent in raw, PCGS would grade it as an AU58

pruebas

I would leave it alone. If you need a PCGS coin for your set, buy one already in PCGS plastic. SB uses PCGS very often now since they are right down the street.

amwldcoin

Originally posted by: jdmern

I think if it was sent in raw, PCGS would grade it as an AU58

Me too.

mercurydimeguy

Thanks for the feedback guys, I have 5 NGC coins I'll send in next Monday for crossover with some MIN grades, and will see what happens. Will keep you posted...

brg5658

Regardless of what you do, that is one really really attractive coin! Congrats!

mercurydimeguy

Originally posted by: brg5658

Regardless of what you do, that is one really really attractive coin! Congrats!

Thank you, and I agree. There is "character" to the coin that's hard to quantify. I've passed up a few blast white ones that just didn't do much for me, but this is original enough on the one hand, but not too dark on the other hand, and I can imagine how it was stored/handled over the years to develop that patina.



Appreciate the feedback. I need to post another coin for your guys' feedback.



Coming soon ...

Zohar

Great coin. I still don't understand why the need to spend money to get it into a certain holder. It's costly, risky (USPS) and the coin remains the same coin IMHO.

bidask

Mercurydimeguy

I thought you might appreciate seeing this:
PCGS 65

mercurydimeguy

Originally posted by: bidask

Mercurydimeguy



I thought you might appreciate seeing this:

PCGS 65

It's also the PCGS plate coin for MS65, I believe....

coinkat

Best wishes with the submission

lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: Zohar

Great coin. I still don't understand why the need to spend money to get it into a certain holder. It's costly, risky (USPS) and the coin remains the same coin IMHO.

You just haven't drunk enough Kool-Aid yet, Z. Pour yourself a tall glass.



No, I understand MDG's desire to have them all in PCGS holders, but of course that does bring its share of hassle and added expense.



I agree that there's a chance PCGS could 58 this one, but it's nice regardless.

dizzlecc

I would try to cross but it is boarder line with the weakness on the eagle. The date comes nice with mint state being common. Yours looks mint state but hard to predict the graders opinion.

mercurydimeguy

I just picked up this coin, also in NGC plastic (MS64). It superior to the previous example in every way. I do highly dislike NGC plastic (for 110 different reasons, including/top of the list how terrible it is to photograph through) so I will send this one to PCGS for cross at ANY.



Thought I'd share this NGC plastic, impossible to image-through, otherwise beautiful coin



PS. The whole coin is semi PL but given NGC plastic issues I can't capture the PL of either coin side very well.

TwoKopeiki

MDG - i would keep the MS62 in the NGC holder. The reverse could keep it out of an MS slab, although I think you have a decent chance of crossing it. These often have weakness on the head / snake / wings and PCGS sometimes takes it for wear.



The MS64 is an all-around beautiful coin. Congrats!

jgenn

Your latest 1869 8R is a beauty. Good luck with crossing it. I see that your other 1869 8R crossed at AU58. Did you crack it out or send it in its NGC slab?

marcmoish

I love that 64 also wow - that's a keeper you got!

Broadstruck

Originally posted by: mercurydimeguyThought I'd share this NGC plastic, impossible to image-through, otherwise beautiful coin

Looks like you did really well for a slab that's troublesome for you



I own way more NGC graded material then PCGS and personally feel both slabs photograph the same without even a slight difference.

mercurydimeguy

Originally posted by: jgenn

Your latest 1869 8R is a beauty. Good luck with crossing it. I see that your other 1869 8R crossed at AU58. Did you crack it out or send it in its NGC slab?

I sent it in the slab...of all the 1869 World coins I have, 26 coins were in NGC plastic, 8 crossed at grade, the other 18 crossed from .5 lower (a single 63 went to 62+), to 4 grading tiers lower (a single MS62 crossed at AU55). Also 3 crossed at 3 grades lower (MS66 to MS63, and two MS62's to AU58). The rest crossed 1-2 grades lower (a single AU55 went to AU50, and so on). Also I've had 3 coins DNC for cleaning, that were in MS61-MS63 holders. Anyhow, that's my limited "history" on my crossing World from NGC to PCGS. I've then sent about 60% of the PCGS graded coins to WINGS so far, and almost every single coin has sitckered, with nearly 50% receiving Gold, for what it's worth.

Originally posted by: marcmoish

I love that 64 also wow - that's a keeper you got!

Marc, I agree! The coin has amazing luster and pristine surfaces, with a some PL qualities. It will replace my current example in the set

Originally posted by: Broadstruck

I own way more NGC graded material then PCGS and personally feel both slabs photograph the same without even a slight difference.

Broadstruck, you are a better man than me my friend I must have bad NGC slab luck. I cannot tell you how many coins I've received that literally rattled in the slab, were crooked, slabs all scuffed up, and have a like a gloss over them that exhibits so much glare, it takes me 30 minutes to image a coin to my standards...and that's after killing my fingers with PlastX



Anyhow, beggars cannot be choosy. Given the fact that the coins I need for my set aren't readily available in PCGS slabs (I've made a ton of Pop 1 coins), most of my World purchases are either raw or NGC. I constantly have coins at PCGS grading, and World is SLOW.....



So I trickle out some freshly PCGS graded material every month or so, after I show it to you guys either raw or in NGC slabs. I am getting ready to send in another order of 4 coins tomorrow



Btw, I'm up to 73 coins now for my 1869 set of everything. But the pace is super slow cause I'm kind of picky ... and I've replaced some coins already with better matching examples, so maybe in the next 12-18 months, I can hit the magic 100

hchcoin

I love your 1869 set of everything!!! Why 1869?

PatAR

That MS64 piece is amazing!

jgenn

Why 1869?

MDG, you've clearly been working on this set for awhile and, since I'm new to the forum, I've probably missed your earlier posts on your set. Indeed, why 1869?



On a possibly related note, I'm working on a set of crowns that all feature the year '60 (starting from my birth-year) but spanning five centuries.

mercurydimeguy

Originally posted by: hchcoin

I love your 1869 set of everything!!! Why 1869?

I started out with doing a birth year set (1969), once I completed that I decided to start a 100 year birth set US coins (1869), and what a project it has become. Half way through it I realized I wouldn't stop until I built a global business strike set of 1869 coins, that should keep me busy for quite some time even if I only had 1 example from each country...I'm up to 73 pieces now and have a few more in grading, and a few more to send.



Looking forward to #100 at some point in the next 12-18 months

mercurydimeguy

This coin crossed at MS64...Here is Phil's beautiful image



BTW, I looked at the POP, and there is single MS65 example graded by PCGS (see the second image below)...also suggested by bidask. Not to be biased towards my coin, but I would take my MS64 over the MS65 15 out of 10 times

Zohar

sent it in the slab...of all the 1869 World coins I have, 26 coins were in NGC plastic, 8 crossed at grade, the other 18 crossed from .5 lower (a single 63 went to 62+), to 4 grading tiers lower (a single MS62 crossed at AU55). Also 3 crossed at 3 grades lower (MS66 to MS63, and two MS62's to AU58). The rest crossed 1-2 grades lower (a single AU55 went to AU50, and so on). Also I've had 3 coins DNC for cleaning, that were in MS61-MS63 holders. Anyhow, that's my limited "history" on my crossing World from NGC to PCGS. I've then sent about 60% of the PCGS graded coins to WINGS so far, and almost every single coin has sitckered, with nearly 50% receiving Gold, for what it's worth.

Man that's a significant investment of time, slabbing cost, shipping, insurance for the sake of consistency of slabs especially when not all coins are of high value. I respect your passion for this endeavor, yet as an outsider who observes the crackout/crossover pursuit it seems like lots of effort and cost which feeds the TPGs. For raw grading, I pick the TPG that provides the better service to the collector and just run with it.

asheland

Beautiful examples!