Darkside And Registry Sets, What Gives?

7Jaguars

I only occasionally see references to Registry sets on the Darkside - other than ego, are there any prizes or other incentives?

neildrobertson

As someone who collects world coins, I really enjoy looking at the registry sets. There doesn't seem to be many people that collect the coins I do, and I probably have only met a couple of them. Registry sets are some of the only exposure to quality coins in the series I am interested in. In that sense, they are an educational tool for me as well. There are only a handful of shows and auctions per year in the US that have a good supply of quality European coins, and they would require travel for me to go to them.


I don't care much about the competitive aspect of it, but I really appreciate the sharing and exhibition aspect of it. I wish there were similar programs that were unaffiliated with the TPGs, but there aren't.

brg5658

Both NGC and PCGS restrict their world (non-USA) coin registry sets to coins in their own brand-specific plastic (NGC only in NGC sets, and PCGS only in PCGS sets). I never cared about the "competitive" (i.e., pissing match) aspect of registry sets.



I use the NGC site's Custom Sets as a way to organize my non-USA coin sets. The Custom Sets on the NGC site can include both brands of plastic, and I prefer the Collection Manager software on the NGC site for collection management and tracking -- the PCGS collection manager software is clumsy in my experience.



Just my opinions.

7Jaguars

I thought about blowing up a couple of series, but think maybe no point to it, just wondering. Too bad there isn't some kind of prize like some free submissions or something (hint, hint).

mercurydimeguy

It's just a preference thing, but as one who just joined the Darkside in the last year or so, but having already submitted 35+ Darkside coins to PCGS for grading, I can tell you they grade VERY differently than NGC so doing a PCGS Registry Set is not for the faint of heart (both emotionally and financially), because you'll pay premium for PQ coins, only to have them PCGS slabbed in a grade lower than you think (like 7 out of 10 times).



And buying PCGS Darkside coins is tough because, well, the grading is brutal/tough, so there aren't a lot of nice Darkside coins in PCGS slabs for largely economic reasons, I guess...



I've cracked an NGC old soap bar MS66 coin that looked like a shot 67, that came back MS63 in PCGS, and just recently sent in a PL/PQ NGC 62 coin that came back PCGS AU55?!?



Anyhow, if the numerical grade is important to you, then NGC is the way to go on Darkside...if you prefer PCGS plastic, and don't care about the numerical grade on the slab, I personally prefer PCGS slabs (not a shameless plug for PCGS, just my preference). But that's a preference that comes at the cost of at least a 1 grading tier, and sometimes as many as 3 grading tiers, lower than NGC.



Of course collecting raw is the best, but I don't trust myself in terms of storage, etc.



My 10 cents

lordmarcovan

Never underestimate the power of ego.



That being said, I'm sure some folks do have other motivations, too.



I see what you're getting at, but don't have any real good answers.

marcmoish

I've cracked an NGC old soap bar MS66 coin that looked like a shot 67, that came back MS63 in PCGS, and just recently sent in a PL/PQ NGC 62 coin that came back PCGS AU55?!?







Can you post the before and after or just the present secure pics on these TWO pieces you are referring to?

mercurydimeguy

Here's one from the latest submission, I don't see any rub -- never mind an AU55 grade? This coin is really choice totally original, and UNC no doubt. OK, maybe they don't agree with NGC 62 (and it's a looker, very PL), but AU55? Head scratcher...and I wish I can say I learned something but I don't see what I can learn from this







The other coin the secure images got messed up (one of those black claw things, a glitch, so they told me to send it back for re-imaging).



By the way, I am now starting to understand why 16 out of the last 18 coins I sent to WINGS got stikered, 9 as gold! The one that was in a 66 NGC old soap bar holder that is now in a PCGS 63 holder got a gold sticker, LOL

marcmoish

I agree with your comments overall.



This Russian piece is most def a fluke as I don't see how they could have graded this 55. Its wrong on multiple counts, and brings up many questions in my mind that if I post would probably get me booted!



It WAS correctly graded at 62, and should have remained a 62. The strike is crisp with little wear if any - even the rims scream MS. I like it alot too.



The wings means nothing to me so that's a moot point and irrelevant.

mercurydimeguy

This piece came back 62+ ... I don't understand. Maybe I caught the grader on a bad day and the whole batch of 12 took a beating. It happens, bad day at home, bad commute, fight with boss, not feeling well...etc.



Like I was saying, it's a good thing that I'm a collector and love to find choice/eye appealing coins and have no imminent need to liquidate them, and I really do prefer PCGS plastic (no shameless plug intended), but sometimes it's a bit frustrating when one's commitment to a brand/service results in disappointment. Alas, regardless of the holder, anyone looking at the coin knows what they see (I hope) and can get past the numerically assigned grade.

brg5658

Originally posted by: mercurydimeguy

It's just a preference thing, but as one who just joined the Darkside in the last year or so, but having already submitted 35+ Darkside coins to PCGS for grading, I can tell you they grade VERY differently than NGC so doing a PCGS Registry Set is not for the faint of heart (both emotionally and financially), because you'll pay premium for PQ coins, only to have them PCGS slabbed in a grade lower than you think (like 7 out of 10 times).



And buying PCGS Darkside coins is tough because, well, the grading is brutal/tough, so there aren't a lot of nice Darkside coins in PCGS slabs for largely economic reasons, I guess...



I've cracked an NGC old soap bar MS66 coin that looked like a shot 67, that came back MS63 in PCGS, and just recently sent in a PL/PQ NGC 62 coin that came back PCGS AU55?!?



Anyhow, if the numerical grade is important to you, then NGC is the way to go on Darkside...if you prefer PCGS plastic, and don't care about the numerical grade on the slab, I personally prefer PCGS slabs (not a shameless plug for PCGS, just my preference). But that's a preference that comes at the cost of at least a 1 grading tier, and sometimes as many as 3 grading tiers, lower than NGC.



Of course collecting raw is the best, but I don't trust myself in terms of storage, etc.



My 10 cents

I don't think you're experiencing PCGS' "toughness" so much as cluelessness and inconsistency. It is far harder to find competent and consistent world coin graders than US coin graders. The world of non-USA coins is so broad that grades are highly dependent on wild-*****-guesses as to how the coin may grade if it were an "equivalent" US coin.



My experiences have been almost the exact opposite of yours. And, the difference between an MS62 and AU55 is often less than the difference between an MS63 and MS64 coin. It seem like it's numerically far apart, but it is not much different practice.



I don't pay much attention to the numeric grades on world coins so long as I like the coin and the price is fair. I have seen MS64 coins with better eye appeal than supposed MS66 or 67 examples. I prefer NGC because I find them to be more consistent in calling similar coins the same numerical grade. I know more what to expect from a numeric grade from them than from PCGS. I do own a lot of non-USA world coins from PCGS also, but I'm very picky to pay what the coin is actually worth, not what the label supposedly makes it worth.



Just my experiences...

neildrobertson

I don't pay much attention to the numeric grades on world coins so long as I like the coin and the price is fair. I have seen MS64 coins with better eye appeal than supposed MS66 or 67 examples. I prefer NGC because I find them to be more consistent in calling similar coins the same numerical grade. I know more what to expect from a numeric grade from them than from PCGS. I do own a lot of non-USA world coins from PCGS also, but I'm very picky to pay what the coin is actually worth, not what the label supposedly makes it worth.

Just my experiences...

My experiences have also validated yours. I've always though a known weakness in the Sheldon scale is lack of emphasis on eye appeal once you get into the MS64 and higher range. Having an MS64 that overall looks better than an MS66 doesn't necessarily mean they graded one of the two wrong. I think it's a weakness in the system. For US collectors, there is always a point of contention between coins being graded in the AU55-MS62 range.. I find that PCGS/NGC will often miss in one direction or the other in this range. This distinction is less 'essential' in the European grading systems that I am familiar with, so they might not care as much.

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I find that both are pretty weak in grading circulated coins accurately. If I sent in a circulated coin, it would not be for the purpose of getting a grade, it would be more for preservation and marketability.

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With registry sets, I tend to favor PCGS. Their sets are organized in a more sensible way, and better reflect the collecting practices in the region. The higher quality collections and the more complete sets are with PCGS in the series I like.

7Jaguars

Really, this is the truth. The Russian coin had some leaves not fully STRUCK up - so no wear and think NGC had it right. If you think that bad, you should see how they grade 20th C. British Matte proofs! Yikes!!!

And Maundy vs. Currency 3ds? Forget it. I was thinking about slabbing a complete G5 proof 3d set but think I will not now.

Type2

I don't get all caught up in my coin is better then yours. I just like to see nice coins and the dark side has that. When I see some thing I like I buy it and if I see what others bought and I like it I'll try to get one or two as well. Some very nice coins on this side. But for me to say I have the best or he has the best I don't mind as long as I have one I'm good. But that is just me dumb Type2.

coinkat

Having a Registry set does not have to be about a coin that is best or better than any other coin. It can be simply be about sharing.

Swampboy

Originally posted by: coinkat

Having a Registry set does not have to be about a coin that is best or better than any other coin. It can be simply be about sharing.

That and just having fun with your coins.

TwoKopeiki

I moved all my registry sets from ATS when NGC banned PCGS graded coins. PCGS has a stricter grading standard when it comes to 8 Reales, but I really like PCGS holders and from what I've seen there is a slight premium in my collecting area associated with our host. Having said that, the main reason I have the registry sets is to keep myself focused.