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Baseball Card Sorting and Package From BBCE!
Mefer
Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭
For the first time in a long time I had a "baseball card" weekend. My wife was out of town Saturday and, for the most part, my three minions were preoccupied with other things. As such, I got to go through some cards!
First up was receiving my package from the most recent BBCE Board rip:
A few thoughts on my purchase:
1. Was very pleased with the rack pack. You cannot go wrong with a Hall of Famer on front (Yaz) with a Vida Blue and Home Run Leaders on the back. I would have loved to have received the McCovey rack instead (as another board member received) as McCovey is one of my all time favorites. That, however, is just a very minor complaint. A very nice and clean rack pack that I just went ahead and put on display in my home office as 78 is my favorite year (the year I started collecting). It will remain entombed.
2. I went back and forth on whether or not I should drop the money for the Cloth Stickers box. Boy, am I sure glad I did. It is nice and clean and presents very well. I suspect it is rarer than the 77 regular issue and for that reason alone, is a nice piece to have. It further inspired me to sometime in the future put a set together. All in all, glad I made the purchase. It too is on display and not for opening.
3. I mainly bought the 84 Topps wax for fun. It probably has very little appreciation prospects but it reminds me of my childhood collecting. I did not have one so it is a nice display piece for my collection. It too will remain sealed.
4. I added on the KISS Donruss wax packs and the mini wax packs. The 78 Donruss KISS set is one of my all time favorites and I am always looking to upgrade my PSA graded set. Sadly, there was no gradeable cards present in either pack. Such is not unexpected as it is a much tougher later issue than many would suspect (you want more details? Feel free to read my article on the set that was published in the SMR a few years back).
On the mini wax packs, I am a sucker for those. Those will remained sealed as, by now, I am apparently slowly building a box ("FASC" designation be damned!). I now have 20 packs from various BBCE purchases over the years. Slowly but surely, I am getting there.
In addition to enjoying my purchase, I also sorted through various singles I have amassed over the last couple of years. Like perhaps many of you do, I enjoy picking up singles and submitting them chasing the elusive 10.
Here is a shot from the beginning of my sort pile:
A few comments on this photo and my sort:
1. First off, that is a non-alcoholic drink. It was a nice and ice cold Dr. Pepper. It is a little known fact that sipping Dr. Pepper, being careful not to spill it around your cards, is quite the skill and a means to pleasing the grading gods.
2. You can see in the photo the two gum cards from my KISS Donruss wax packs. Sadly, those cards met the trash as the gum would not budge. Efforts to remove the gum met with paper tearing (and every time the paper tore, I swear I could hear Gene Simmons crying somewhere).
3. When I started the sort process, the 72 Reggie kept staring at me the whole time telling me how great a card he is and that he is a "sure fire 10." The 76 Morgans, placed strategically next to Reggie, attempted to quiet him by over analyzing their centering and how Reggie began playing when cardboard production improved (thus making it easier for Reggie compared to Joe). That in turn required two 76 Ryans to be placed next to them both with threats to go "Ventura" on their cardboard "you know whats." All logic.
4. You will also see a K-Mart Hank Aaron that was autographed. Can't remember where I picked it up but I sent it in for authentication a few years ago and the autograph came back bad. There it has sat.
5. Tools of the trade include a magnifying lamp and centering tool. Can't remember where I picked up the latter but it works like a charm.
After sorting through everything, I came up with 70 something cards to grade. After doing that, I realized I would have to re-up PSA membership and pay close to $6.00 a card (inclusive of to and from shipping charges) to get the cards graded. When the dust settles, that would have put me in at over five bills. While I want to get all of the cards I culled down for submission (and details on my sort process in a later post in this thread), I started to have second thoughts. I would need to at least hit a handful of 10s on the right cards just to break even. In any event, this placed me in the conundrum I have been stuck in the last few years-- a good number of cards ready for submission that pay off in 10, at best break even in 9, and lose money 8 or lower. With those odds, I need more talking to myself to see if I should send in at some point.
Enjoy!
Matt
First up was receiving my package from the most recent BBCE Board rip:
A few thoughts on my purchase:
1. Was very pleased with the rack pack. You cannot go wrong with a Hall of Famer on front (Yaz) with a Vida Blue and Home Run Leaders on the back. I would have loved to have received the McCovey rack instead (as another board member received) as McCovey is one of my all time favorites. That, however, is just a very minor complaint. A very nice and clean rack pack that I just went ahead and put on display in my home office as 78 is my favorite year (the year I started collecting). It will remain entombed.
2. I went back and forth on whether or not I should drop the money for the Cloth Stickers box. Boy, am I sure glad I did. It is nice and clean and presents very well. I suspect it is rarer than the 77 regular issue and for that reason alone, is a nice piece to have. It further inspired me to sometime in the future put a set together. All in all, glad I made the purchase. It too is on display and not for opening.
3. I mainly bought the 84 Topps wax for fun. It probably has very little appreciation prospects but it reminds me of my childhood collecting. I did not have one so it is a nice display piece for my collection. It too will remain sealed.
4. I added on the KISS Donruss wax packs and the mini wax packs. The 78 Donruss KISS set is one of my all time favorites and I am always looking to upgrade my PSA graded set. Sadly, there was no gradeable cards present in either pack. Such is not unexpected as it is a much tougher later issue than many would suspect (you want more details? Feel free to read my article on the set that was published in the SMR a few years back).
On the mini wax packs, I am a sucker for those. Those will remained sealed as, by now, I am apparently slowly building a box ("FASC" designation be damned!). I now have 20 packs from various BBCE purchases over the years. Slowly but surely, I am getting there.
In addition to enjoying my purchase, I also sorted through various singles I have amassed over the last couple of years. Like perhaps many of you do, I enjoy picking up singles and submitting them chasing the elusive 10.
Here is a shot from the beginning of my sort pile:
A few comments on this photo and my sort:
1. First off, that is a non-alcoholic drink. It was a nice and ice cold Dr. Pepper. It is a little known fact that sipping Dr. Pepper, being careful not to spill it around your cards, is quite the skill and a means to pleasing the grading gods.
2. You can see in the photo the two gum cards from my KISS Donruss wax packs. Sadly, those cards met the trash as the gum would not budge. Efforts to remove the gum met with paper tearing (and every time the paper tore, I swear I could hear Gene Simmons crying somewhere).
3. When I started the sort process, the 72 Reggie kept staring at me the whole time telling me how great a card he is and that he is a "sure fire 10." The 76 Morgans, placed strategically next to Reggie, attempted to quiet him by over analyzing their centering and how Reggie began playing when cardboard production improved (thus making it easier for Reggie compared to Joe). That in turn required two 76 Ryans to be placed next to them both with threats to go "Ventura" on their cardboard "you know whats." All logic.
4. You will also see a K-Mart Hank Aaron that was autographed. Can't remember where I picked it up but I sent it in for authentication a few years ago and the autograph came back bad. There it has sat.
5. Tools of the trade include a magnifying lamp and centering tool. Can't remember where I picked up the latter but it works like a charm.
After sorting through everything, I came up with 70 something cards to grade. After doing that, I realized I would have to re-up PSA membership and pay close to $6.00 a card (inclusive of to and from shipping charges) to get the cards graded. When the dust settles, that would have put me in at over five bills. While I want to get all of the cards I culled down for submission (and details on my sort process in a later post in this thread), I started to have second thoughts. I would need to at least hit a handful of 10s on the right cards just to break even. In any event, this placed me in the conundrum I have been stuck in the last few years-- a good number of cards ready for submission that pay off in 10, at best break even in 9, and lose money 8 or lower. With those odds, I need more talking to myself to see if I should send in at some point.
Enjoy!
Matt
0
Comments
Nice centering overlay transparency you have there.
Great writing.
You do realize, however, that most of the responses will be focused on the centering tool. Methinks you will need to rack your brain quite a bit harder as to how and where you got it as the requests will be relentless.
Woops. I just saw you said Dr Pepper.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
You can't just look at the pictures, Matt!
Lmao! Busted. I looked at the pics first then read all those words second lol
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Great read - loved the detail provided.
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Jeremy
CENTERING TOOL
First up, here is a close up of my centering tool:
As you can see, it is a Gene Simmons KISS centering tool (I kid-- I just needed a reason to add in a picture of KISS). I purchased it probably sometime in 1998 or 1999. It has a website of center-it.com which is now a domain for purchase. It is pretty clever; you simply match up the centering tool as closely as possible on the card, read the numbers, and consult the chart. It is most likely not as accurate as counting pixels but it is a lot quicker and easier (besides it passes the horseshoes and hand grenade test of being "close enough").
A quick Google search cannot locate the tool for sale anywhere. It is really a bit surprising considering the tool came out before grading really hit. Again, a really cool idea that works well enough for my needs.
SUBMISSION PROCESS
Also, in case anyone is interested, the following is the process I typically follow in submitting cards.
Like most of you, I have piles and piles of vintage cards just lying around waiting to be graded. Well, I wish that was the case. In reality, like many of you, I do not have such a stash. Instead, I pick up cards that catch my fancy and horde the cards for an eventual submission. While your tastes can and will vary, I generally look for cards from the late 60s to 1980 (unless of course I can find more 1986 Jose Uribe rookies to add to my 50 card brick that I am sure to cash in on some day). The newer the cards are in that range, the more apt I am to limit my search to star cards. Commons may enter the equation if exceptionally nice, more so if they are 1972 or older. I generally follow this path as commons are the most likely beasts to bite you. Unless you are dealing with a low population common or a tough issue, many commons in the 8 to 9 grade range are really not worth chasing when you consider the purchase price plus grading fee (believe me, I have learned the hard way).
As I collect my war chest of cards, I briefly look them over without passing judgment and add them to the proverbial pile. Once that pile grows until I cannot stand it anymore, or my wife leaves for the weekend (whichever occurs first), I start the more detailed sort process. The process is rather tedious, and candidly boring, to the non-card fanatic. It is also tiring. Because of the latter, I do try to take frequent breaks and spread the review over at least a couple of days. This also helps keep me fresh and avoid letting an unworthy card slip into the pile.
Once Judgment Day arrives, here is the process I typically follow:
1. The cards I have accumulated are eyeballed for centering and corner wear. If any card fails either of these tests, it is put into the reject pile. Exceptions do exist at this and every point below if the card is a star card, a low pop, or otherwise valuable in a lower anticipated grade, usually being a 7 or 8. However, over the years, I have attempted to become more stringent in my exceptions.
2. For the cards that survive the first round of Judgment Day, they go through phase two, which is a close review under magnification. For corners, I want four razor sharp corners. Any card that has at least one corner with a slight push or modest chipping under magnification is rejected. Note that many of those types of rejected cards may qualify for 9 grades but I am pushing for 10s. For centering, I will examine cards more closely with the centering tool. Any card that is not at least close to 50/50 all the way around is rejected. Same exceptions as noted above apply here.
3. Once the above step is passed, I review the surface of the cards. Any card that exhibits snow, fish eyes, poor printing registration, etc., is mocked and ridiculed until it crawls to the reject pile. I want no part of a PD qualifier as it is worse than watching Demi Moore wearing a scarlet letter in the Scarlet Letter. It is a death sentence. Avoid this at all costs as it is akin to flushing green down the pooper. The exceptions noted above do not even receive the special treatment at this level.
4. The final step is a final naked eyeball review with a consultation of the pop report. Generally with commons, if it is a pop 10 or higher in 10, it is not worth the chase. As such, a pristine looking common will most likely get tossed into the reject pile at this step (even though spending $6.00 to grade a PSA 10 common in order to sell it for $9.99 is wonderful). However, with low pops, I may push the envelope a bit and submit a card with fingers crossed (especially with those that bring even good money as 9s and at least break even at 8s). The pop report is free and it is your friend. I repeat. The pop report is your friend and it is free. Use it to your advantage.
5. Certain issues may receive special treatment. For example with 1971 Topps cards, I am generally just shooting for 8s or better. To that end, I pay extra close attention to corners as any hint of white on the corners is generally a death sentence of 7 or lower. Even then, you still need to act judiciously as there are certain 71 commons that can be had all day in 8 for 10 bucks. Having a working knowledge of relative value also comes in to play.
Having gone through all of that with my most recent process, I am still struggling on submitting as I would need to invest over $500.00 to get the cards graded (membership fee plus grading fees at roughly $6.00 per card). I would most likely need to hit at least five 10s in order to have a decent shot of at least breaking even (since I am a collector first and foremost, many cards never make it to the sale point). Hitting five tens out of 70 to 80 cards, even with the above culling process, is difficult. As such, I may still remain gun shy on submitting. Consequently, I will resort to begging PSA to offer a $4.00 grading special (someone is now screaming at me to put the crack pipe down).
OBSERVATIONS ON COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS WITH GRADING
Since I made this thread, I thought I would add my thoughts on some common misconceptions on grading. These are simply my opinions and you may very well agree. If you disagree, I respect that. With that caveat, take these with a large grain of salt.
1. "PSA issues evidence of trimming/minimum size rejections in order to make more money on the resubmit game." I disagree. I firmly believe PSA would rather be wrong on a card than have it find its way into a holder. If PSA became too lenient here, trust and confidence in PSA could be lost. PSA has not become the leading third party grader by consistently grading trimmed cards. Does that mean trimmed cards never make their way past PSA? Of course not but there are diligent efforts, in my opinion, to ferret out nefarious activity. In the end, smart business suggests erring on the side of rejecting.
2. "I can't believe I got no 10s on that last submission. These were the best of my cards, culled from thousands." I sympathize here. I truly do. However, the PSA grader does not know that. Even then, the PSA grader may not agree with your eye (and trust me, we all tend to subjectively err on the side of over grading our own cards). As such, this thought process does not, and should not, have any weight in grading.
3. "PSA is too inconsistent in its grading. Its a crock." As I have stated in other threads, grading is inherently subjective. It is also done by humans. This leads to variants and even having cards graded differently. I, like many of you, have cracked and resubmitted cards that achieved a higher grade. Success stories there, however, are generally only a bump of one grade (with two grade bumps rare). Such is acceptable to me. Also, put your feet into the shoes of a grader. Could you imagine being placed in a dark room, eight hours a day, forty hours a week grading cards? My goodness, I love cards as much as the next collector on here but that sounds more awful than a world with no KISS. Graders have to get tired and very well have their grading impacted by external factors (I am convinced there does exist the "Friday grader" like the "Friday car"). Really, you just have to accept the subjective nature of grading and move past this point.
4. "All the big submitters get the best grades." I have seen no direct evidence of this. Obviously, doing simple math (which is difficult even for me) suggests submitting 10,000 cards is going to get you more 10s than submitting 100 cards. (And could you imagine grading 10,000 cards? Where is the cyanide?) The short of it is I personally trust PSA and they remain the gold standard of grading.
CLOSING THOUGHTS
I know, a lot of rambling here. Hopefully there is a nugget or two that helps someone along. In the end, I think it remains true to collect what you like and don't take all of this too seriously. Enjoy the hobby and if you can self subsidize your hobby a few times along the way, consider it a plus rather than an ongoing occurrence.
Matt
Matt
....where can we find that centering tool?...the website on the tool doesn't seem to exist
looking for this as well.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Put the card in the freezer overnight. Gene might get real cold, but the gum should come right off with no card damage the next morning.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
2. You can see in the photo the two gum cards from my KISS Donruss wax packs. Sadly, those cards met the trash as the gum would not budge. Efforts to remove the gum met with paper tearing (and every time the paper tore, I swear I could hear Gene Simmons crying somewhere).
Put the card in the freezer overnight. Gene might get real cold, but the gum should come right off with no card damage the next morning.
Nice tip. I'll try this next time! Thanks!
type < br > < br >, with no spaces between < and br where you want spacing between paragraphs. Sometimes it doesn't save though.. It's HTML coding so it wont show if I did.
Thanks; figured there was some trick!
Great stuff by the way.
Robert
email bcmiller7@comcast.net