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I am so mad at Lord M This is your fault!!!!!! French Coin 1700s

Ok Lord M because this is your fault I am asking for your help on this coin to see if you have any information on it. This is what you get for posting a very beautiful world coin that could have been in the colonies on the US coin forum. I saw this item and have no idea why but had to have it and it has the same reverse as the one you posted. I think the younger person on the obverse is interesting. I have no idea the composition as this is the sellers picks, I will reimage it when in hand. Thanks for any help given.





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Comments

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fabulous! It seems you have another jeton like the one I recently purchased, though I'm afraid I'm rather ill-equipped to give you any substantive information on it. I have never seen the Feuardent reference that is cited on these, though I am sure there are some here more familiar with it. Based on the shared reverse between our two pieces, I'd assume that puts yours roughly circa 1740. The "younger person" on the obverse of yours is but a different bust of French King Louis XV. I will say I like the portrait on yours better than the one on mine- it is a more handsome likeness of him. Beyond that, I'm powerless to help much, since I still haven't done my homework with my example yet!



    I'm not sure how much one could say something like this "could have been in the colonies"; however, there is certainly that possibility, as it was created when some of the American founding fathers were young men, and there was much movement of people and objects across the ocean between France and America in that century. If you need to include an American scene in your mind-movie about this piece, by all means, go ahead. Nobody will be able to disprove it.



    Therein lies the beauty of historical numismatics, particularly the " Dark Side" of it. It tends to fire up the imagination even more. But in educational as well as fanciful ways. If you'll pardon the psychedelic 1960s reference, there's a line in a classic Moody Blues song on the "In Search of the Lost Chord" album I always loved. Simply put, it says, "Thinking is the best way to travel".



    Welcome to the Dark Side!




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  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PS-technically these weren't coins, per se, but rather jetons, i. e., coinlike medals of a sort.



    Earlier European jetons were used as mathematical counters on abacus-style counting boards, but these 18th century French pieces like ours, being larger and more ornate (and often struck in silver) probably had a more artistic or commemorative purpose.



    By way of comparison, here again is the one I recently purchased. It is silver and roughly half dollar sized.





    FRANCE. Louis XV. Circa 1740 (ND) AR Jeton. PCGS AU58. Feuardent 13203.





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  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well written Rob! Cool indeed!
  • Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

    PS-technically these weren't coins, per se, but rather jetons, i. e., coinlike medals of a sort.



    Earlier European jetons were used as mathematical counters on abacus-style counting boards, but these 18th century French pieces like ours, being larger and more ornate (and often struck in silver) probably had a more artistic or commemorative purpose.



    By way of comparison, here again is the one I recently purchased. It is silver and roughly half dollar sized.





    FRANCE. Louis XV. Circa 1740 (ND) AR Jeton. PCGS AU58. Feuardent 13203.





    image









    It seems as he got older his eyes got bigger lol. Your coin is gorgeous

    This is what the listing stated, I don't know if it helps. I have many world coins and lurk here quite often. I will have to start posting some of them.

    Louis XV (1715-1774), L’Aurore tenant dans la main gauche un flambeau, Jeton non daté, Feuardent 13195 (this means holding in his hand a tourch I think)
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, Aurora holding a torch while riding in that chariot.



    It's a fitting theme for the Age of Enlightenment.



    Well, now we know the Feuardent variety number for yours as well. Perhaps someone can enlighten us further on these.

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  • BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭
    The young child head is one of my favorites of the French Royals. I wish I had a reference for all the Royals and have wanted to ask the forum members for a lead on catalogues that don't cost a fortune.



    The Child portrait was changed around 1726 and then appears as a young adolescent so I would guess the date to be in the first ten years as King 1716-1726
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BIGAL2749

    The young child head is one of my favorites of the French Royals. I wish I had a reference for all the Royals and have wanted to ask the forum members for a lead on catalogues that don't cost a fortune.



    The Child portrait was changed around 1726 and then appears as a young adolescent so I would guess the date to be in the first ten years as King 1716-1726




    Well, there you go... that seems to narrow it down a little more chronologically. So your piece is earlier than mine, which I guess shouldn't be all that surprising.

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  • PatARPatAR Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    Kudos to Lord M for enticing another collector to the "Dark Side"! image And congrats to Christos!


    I'm fascinated by medals and jetons and could not resist a quick look to see what I could find regarding these.


    Mitchiner's Jetons, Medalets, & Tokens of the Low Countries and France identifies jetons that used this same reverse with many different obverse busts. Some were made which depict Louis XIV in the early 1700's. They were also made with several different busts of Louis XV by several different artists, some with the younger Louis XV and many depicting the older Louis XV. According to Mitchiner these jetons were popular and were made from sometime after 1700 into the 1730's.


    Volume I of the Monnaie de Paris Catalog does not appear to list jetons with this reverse, but does identify many of the busts of Louis XV that appear on jetons of the period. There are 68 versions listed. Certainly not all of these were used on the jeton in question, but it does give some idea of the number of different busts of Louis XV that appeared on medals and jetons at the time. In my estimation bust number 50 by Benjamin Du Vivier appears to match the bust shown on Lord M's jeton.


    Based on what I saw in these two books there are probably a few different renditions of the younger bust and easily half a dozen or more renditions of the elder bust on jetons of this Aurora chariot type.


    Hope this helps you both in your own research.


    P.S. Please excuse the run on paragraph. Not sure why my paragraphs aren't showing up properly.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fantastic! Thanks for the intelligence.



    See, Christos? I told you somebody with some of the right books would come along.



    Behold the power of THE DARK SIDE!



    *Imperial salute*




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