Why is the PCGS Registry more popular than the NGC Registry?

braddick · May 27, 2002 3:14AM

This question jumped to my mind after reading a post by Dog97 over on the Coin Forum.
Now, according to the folks over on the NGC Forums, and to some extent, even over here, the NGC Registry is more user friendly and awards the coin (per their weighing system). NCG's customer care and service receives raves and there is a general love fest for the way NGC conducts their business. PCGS customer service is spoken of with distain.
On top of all that I'm now reading where there really is NO difference between NGC and PCGS when it comes to grades and coins.
Wow! On the otherhand I read here (and 'across the street') that PCGS is a screwup when it comes to grading and especially their customer service! The war stories we hear! So either PCGS is NGC's equal or they are worse.
If this is all true, then why is it the NGC Registry is NO WHERE near as popular as the PCGS Registry?

To recap: The coins are the "same". The service over there is "better". Why isn't the NGC Registry more popular?

(hint: Maybe it has something to do with the coins? Collectors want to collect the better coin and everything else is second rate compared to that goal.)

keithdagen · May 27, 2002 3:22AM

OK, my one and only beef with the NGC Registry is this: I don't know what my upgrade is worth point-wise.

Since funds are limited and upgrades expensive, I try to pick my upgrades based on a couple of factors: number of points in the Registry rankings, price of the upgrade, number of coins in that grade or better for the Type, and a relative ranking of price to population compared to all other coins needing upgrade.

That's how I selected the Barber half upgrade. For the price, it gave me the most bang for the buck in the Registry and compared to other Gem Type coins, was significantly undervalued based on my formula.

Unfortunately, with NGC, I have to discount how much the coin will boost my set because they do not publish the formula for ranking. I can make some educated guesses, but that is all that they are.

dbldie55 · May 27, 2002 3:46AM

Let's see, it may have something to do with a few more years under the belt of one. Many people were already in the PCGS one, so others followed. PCGS seems to have very loyal (if not blind) followers. Remember, number one in popularity seems to have less to do with quality, and more to do with marketing. Give NGC's system three or four years to mature.

Why is ACG pulling so much market share? Certainly has nothing to do with what they sell.

braddick · May 27, 2002 4:19AM

That's a load. Just because PCGS started earlier (and, who really heard or participated in the Registry three+ years ago? I bet there were less than 50 sets registered then!) doesn't mean they would retain the lead position- by a hugh margin too, if they were inferior with NGC.
Collectors are not THAT loyal! If a better game comes along it wouldn't take long for Collectors to abandone PCGS. Look what happened when the NGC Forums opened up. Lots of activity and then just about everyone came back here.
Nope. I don't buy it.
If NGC was BETTER- we'de all have our coins Registered there. We'de also be discussing this Thread over there too (which, by the way, was started- the same Coin Forum Thread- over there BEFORE the one here was and it hasn't garnered near the responses).

*edited to add the word, 'not' between 'are' and 'THAT'.

mdwoods · May 27, 2002 4:30AM

PCGS is consistently tougher on their grading. NGC is way to lax on the modern stuff. The NGC forum is very dead compared to the PCGS forums. I check out both, and PCGSs' is far more lively and informative. I can sum it up with an example I have used before. I auctioned off a NGC MS69 2000 P Sac and only got one bid. It sold for a hundred dollars. It was 1 or maybe 2 points overgraded. Can you imagine what the action would have been if it had been a PCGS MS69 coin instead? NGC is pretty good on older stuff. On older copper, they let more "questionable color coins" thru than PCGS does. I have seen numerous examples of that happening. I still like NGC, but PCGS is number 1. Mark

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 4:35AM

Here is a 1958 Washington quarter in a PCGS blue slab, any guesses on what they graded it? By the way I am neither pro or con either grading company.

Link

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 4:41AM

braddick:

Since the Forumns were Installed at NGC the Registries have Steadily Grown. So the Previous Post Is Not a Load !!! Give them Time and the Site Will Be More Popular.

Yes Collectors are Loyal too Grading Services for Some Unknown Reason. You Can Sure tell that By seeing Who Posts Here often and Also Who Posts at NGC often.

As I said With Modern Coinage Yesterday, Check back in with this same Post in a Couple of Years and See what the Answer will be.

No One even knew about the NGC Registry before the PCGS Boards went down for the One weekend a Few Months back. Trust Me on this because I believe I had the Only Merc set Registered there for Months and Now 14 are Registered even though it looks like 4 are In-active.

Fan of Both PCGS & NGC

braddick · May 27, 2002 4:42AM

IrishMike- It's tough to tell by the scan if that is attractive toning or not (probably not- so as to support your conclusion).
I do know this: In some ways NGC is more evil than ACG. With ACG you KNOW what you are getting (or, better stated, what you are NOT getting!). With NGC you don't. The only 'light at the end of the tunnel' is the knowledge more and more Collectors are realizing NGC is a bit of a sham and are pulling their resources out of their coins.

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 4:44AM

Better scan.

Link

braddick · May 27, 2002 4:45AM

The reason no one knew about the NGC boards until the PCGS Forums went down was because they had only been up for three days prior to that! -Probably played a part in it, true?

People are loyal to that which serves their needs/wants best.

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 4:49AM

All I know is what I read here about results of coins sent in for grading, it seems to be at least NGC is more consistent, but I have coins I admire is at least 4 different slabs. Since my favorite coins are unslabbed I have no built in bias one way or the other. I buy a coin for one reason, because it appeals to me, regardless of the plastic or I think I can resell it and make money to invest in coins that I really like.

braddick · May 27, 2002 4:49AM

ACG "Market Share" is a hoax. Look at eBay- the coins DON'T sell with most of them not even receiving a single bid. Unless it is a fire sale ACG owns NO PART of the coin market.

ACG is a joke and 99.9% of all Collectors know it by now (in no small part because of the efforts of this forum).
The other .1% either don't know or simply don't care.

PCGS and NGC own the market.

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 4:50AM

Wrong !!

The Registries had Been there for a Couple of Months Atleast. My set was Over there before it was here I think.

The Forumns is What was Brand New when PCGS went Down.

Excuse Please I thought You Said Registries. You are Correct on the Forumns.

quattrocoins · May 27, 2002 4:55AM

I believe that the answer was already given by the one who posed the question.
It has everything to do with the quality of the coins and "everything else is second rate compared to that goal."
I know that in the series that I collect, PCGS has had the better quality for the grade.
Maybe not as consistant, but still better overall. So, I have PCGS slabbed coins,...should I start NGC sets (they do accept them, right?)?
Nah!

Regards,

Don

PCGS Registries and

Keyrock · May 27, 2002 4:57AM

I would venture to say the consistency in grading. In general I think people feel more comfortable with the grading (most of the time) with PCGS vs NGC. In my own experience (with copper) NGC's were a point higher than what PCGS would have gradded them. For right or wrong PCGS has reputation for being the best and I think people have gravitated to them.

That being said I have 95% of my coins that are slabbed in PCGS holders. I had been to the PCGS site prior to the registry and was familiar with the PCGS site so I've stayed here.

A quick question, has any major collection in the last two years been sold as " the best XXXX coins in the NGC registry"? The Walser collection, Kamuff etc. have been PCGS. In marketing any collection for sale, I would have a PCGS set for sale before I would have a NGC set for sale, it seems to be more visible.

Regards,
Rich

PTVETTER · May 27, 2002 5:00AM

I know why!! It's because I'm here I'm just sooooo wounderful!

Well maybe I streched things just a little

but here we all have a little fun

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 5:00AM

You have Noticed at NGC that the Participants,as a Rule, are Mostly Older Collectors haven't You. So Maybe they Believe NGC is Serving thier "Interests and Needs" better. Some are very Vocal about That.

Great Thread this Should Throw a Little More Interest Toward NGC.

Is this the Purpose of this Discussion ?

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 5:01AM

PCGs 67 There are none graded higher, I believe the pop is 198/0. By the way anyone interested in it for the registry, it's for sale for $85.

keithdagen · May 27, 2002 5:02AM

A quick question, has any major collection in the last two years been sold as " the best XXXX coins in the NGC registry"? The Walser collection, Kamuff etc. have been PCGS. In marketing any collection for sale, I would have a PCGS set for sale before I would have a NGC set for sale, it seems to be more visible

Remember that the NGC Registry has only been around for a few months, and they are still working on adding sets over there. Some major advantages are that they recognize PCGS coins in the Registry and that you have a greater file size limitation on scans of coins. I can double the resolution on my pics across the street and viewers can really get a feel for the piece.

braddick · May 27, 2002 5:04AM

SOLD! Mike, do you take Paypal?
PM me please for my mailing address.

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 5:04AM

Why Does Someone ALWAYS have to Bring Up ACG ? Ignore Them and Keep the Free Advertisement for Them Off These Forumns.

In NO Way Can You Compare NGC to ACG.. !!!!!!!!!!

Keyrock · May 27, 2002 5:07AM

Keith,

Thank for the info. I wasn't too familiar with the NGC site, It sounds like it will be a matter of time......

Rich

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 5:07AM

PM sent

Bcsican · May 27, 2002 5:12AM

I think its like soda wars who gets the best shelf life and best marketing, PCGS has been more consistant in their grading over the long 16 years than NGC. Pcgs holders look better and there are fewer overgraded coins as a whole, Just look at the pop #s in MS and proof 70 coins at NGC you really think all of those are true 70 coins? Most of those moderns I dont feel are deserving of that should be rare grade, NGC is to easy on MS modern coins IMHO. Better on older coins and off the board in Morgans, too many overgraded also IMHO,

In the long run I feel PCGS is better bang for the money invested....

braddick · May 27, 2002 5:14AM

Mike- I received your PM along with your address. I couldn't, for the life of me, get my PM to post back to you. My check is on its way to you tomorrow morning!
Who knows? Even with the 'dark color' this one might make it into an NGC "Star" holder!

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 5:16AM

Bcsican, can't disagree with what you say except for the long run, been active in this business since the 50's, there is no long run guarantees. I posted a thread today on the coin forum, if you are certain PCGS DCAM 69 proof eagles will cross to NGC 70's do it, they are selling 2-5 times what PCGS 69's are.

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 5:18AM

LOL Braddick, if you like Washingtons I have some you would drool over in NGC holders.

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 5:28AM

Just a Simple Question Here.

Are the NGC and PCGS Standards for Grading the Same ???? You All know the Answer, So why Does Everyone Say NGC Over Grades ? They (NGC) and PCGS Grade to the Standards they have Set Forth. NGC just Does It More Consistantly.

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 5:38AM

Fairlaneman, you are corrent its a circular argument, some would argue PCGS undergrades moderns. Like I keep saying I don't really give a rat's patootie, I buy the coin that yells at me "gotta have".

Spooly · May 27, 2002 5:41AM

NGC is not going to promote the NGC Registry until all the sets are listed. (3 months)

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 5:48AM

Hey Spool :

How are You Feeling.

Braddick does not take that into Account Seems How He is Pro PCGS all the Way and Must Rip NGC every Chance He Gets. Just MVHO.

Sure Got Me Shook on Both Boards for a Bit. (COIN & REGISTRY)

Bear · May 27, 2002 6:41AM

Ken - Dont tell me that old Bear is holding down the aged folks corner at PCGS all alone. Gosh its so lonelyat the top.

PTVETTER · May 27, 2002 7:09AM

What is old? not just over 50 I hope. I would say old is a state of mind something like over 100 and maybe not even then

You mean pcgs registry sucess is because of me oh pooh

IrishMike · May 27, 2002 7:12AM

I am sure he meant mature not "older" collectors and if he did his comments made a lot of sense.

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 7:14AM

55 Next Month.

Young at Heart but Just Cannot Get More than 1/2 Inch of Daylight between the Floor and the Feet when Jumping. Can Still Do the 100 Yard Dash in a Few Minutes Though.

braddick · May 27, 2002 8:26AM

"Braddick must rip NGC every chance he gets".
Where do you find this stuff? Other than a couple of other Threads, all relating to the topic, when/where have I ripped NGC?

We all talk about how this is a Coin Forum. Of course we're going to have differences of opinion on the various Threads and views within the Threads discussed. I don't consider anyone "ripping" on PCGS- no matter how hot the conversation gets and I would appreciate the same courtesy back unless you have something substantial to back up your claims against me (or anyone else).

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 8:43AM

Man You Are Thinned Skinned.

I Put IMO on that Post and If You Cannot take a Little Statement like that One without getting Personal DO NOT RESPOND.

This Is Probably My First Harsh Statement on These Boards but You Deserve it Buddy.

Ken

braddick · May 27, 2002 8:49AM

Ken, I'm not being "thinned skinned" about this- only asking for the evidence to back up your claim. Is that now off limits with you too? You may state whatever you wish and NOT expect me to ask for you to back your claim up? You had to know this would be a question I'd ask. Would you please still answer it? We can bookmark the commentary about one another for later. I'd sure like to know what you based you opinion on.
Wow. Now- tell me again who is thinned skinned?!

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 8:56AM

Pat:

Just Go Back and Read Your Own Posts to This Thread and the Thread on the Coin Forumn.

Enough Said Its Dropped By ME. Pissing Matches Do Nothing For Me at All.

Ken

DHeath · May 27, 2002 8:56AM

Guys, I think for me it boils down to this; I like the service at PCGS and NGC, but I know that PCGS is a little more grade conservative on moderns, so when I build a set of very high quality moderns, I want it to be a slam-dunk set of super-nice no question of quality collection. Sometimes PCGS misses a grade, and so do the other grading services, but speaking only for myself, I would much rather have my collection of PR69 Dcam Kennedys be slightly undergraded than to worry that there were coins in the group that might be overgraded. I've submitted enough crossover coins to know that some coins in PCGS holders are much nicer. My most recent faux pas was a 1964 NGC PR69 Cameo that I cracked out and crossed at PR68 NoCam. When I buy my next PCGS PR69 Cam, I know it'll be a nicer coin.

braddick · May 27, 2002 9:05AM

Fair enough. I'm not a big proponent of pssing matches either (although I didn't think it had reached that level yet).
I guess we'll leave it at that.

quattrocoins · May 27, 2002 9:48AM

Ill back-up Don's faux pas w/two of my own.
I cracked out two proof Washingtons(NGC): a '59 PR69CAM, and a '53 PR68CAM.
The '59 came back PR67CAM, and the '53 came back PR67(no cam!).

Of course, in each case, I thought that PCGS was too strict! LOL

Regards,

Don

edited to fix my PR59CAM faux pas.

Fairlaneman · May 27, 2002 9:58AM

Heck of a Up-Grade From AU59 (???? ) to PF67 . Nice Shot, Way to Go

Ken

michael · May 27, 2002 12:40PM

well i only buy the coin NOT the holder

and all the coins i have seen from friends and relatives in NGC holders are much better than the same coin and date and grade in a pcgs holder!!

but like i said i only buy the coin not the holder so for me pcgs and ngc are the same as i would only consider hi end tremendously eye appealling unusual coins that have many great qualities wheather in an ngc or pcgs holder.

sincerely michael

it takes some looking to find coins like the above in ngc or pcgs holders but they are out there.................

robbnsc · May 27, 2002 1:02PM

Geeze! Braddick, you are just full of it about NGC, aren't you? Give it a chance. PCGS has many more members because: 1. They have been at it longer and, 2. Their membership is growing fast because of the above stated advantages. Give NGC another 6 months and see where they are then.

EVillageProwler · May 28, 2002 7:21AM

A quick question, has any major collection in the last two years been sold as " the best XXXX coins in the NGC registry"? The Walser collection, Kamuff etc. have been PCGS. In marketing any collection for sale, I would have a PCGS set for sale before I would have a NGC set for sale, it seems to be more visible.

There is one major collection that sold recently, and it entirely in NGC slabs: the Eagle Collection of Double Eagles. (Or, something like that.) I don't know if it was actually in a Registry, but it was a fabulous set.

Anyway, I know my answer is somewhat off-topic, but I think it illustrates that there are major slabbed collections not in PCGS holders. (I know of a NGC-slabbed Trade Dollar collection and a mostly ICG-slabbed ESD collection that are both Registry quality.)

EVP

Spooly · May 28, 2002 7:58AM

To judge one over the other is insane at this point. PCGS Registry is what..... 7 to 8 years old? NGC.... a couple of months old?

NGC already has over 487 sets! I wonder how many sets PCGS had after a couple of months?

NGC hasn't even started promoting the Registry yet.

PCGS should be Thanking NGC for including PCGS coins..... adds even more demand for PCGS coins.... thus higher prices!

merysu · May 28, 2002 8:56AM

Braddick, I usually enjoy reading your threads but calling NGC a sham is over the top, and smacks of blatantly shilling for PCGS. -mark-

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2002 9:22AM

PCGS should be Thanking NGC for including PCGS coins

That'll be the day!

I suspect that in the long run the PCGS Set Registry will remain popular for the modern coinage issues because it's so easy to find them in quantity. The classic series, where the rare issues tend to be very hard to find in that particular grade in that particular holder will gravitate to NGC's Registry simply because of the less stressful completion of the set. But time will tell......

Dog97 · May 28, 2002 11:53AM

Braddick seys: That's a load. Just because PCGS started earlier (and, who really heard or participated in the Registry three+ years ago? I bet there were less than 50 sets registered then!)

How much you wanna bet? How bout a killer rainbow 1997 SAE??

Why is the PCGS Registry more popular than the NGC Registry?

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