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Anyone bidding in CNG's auction of the Adams collection?
Nap
Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
Some awfully nice gold pieces, from across the collecting spectrum. Lots of interesting ancient and medieval coins, although most outside of my area of expertise.
Given the sheer size of this collection, I imagine prices may be a little soft, although I've been disproven on this before.
Given the sheer size of this collection, I imagine prices may be a little soft, although I've been disproven on this before.
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World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
It sold for twice estimate, which in my opinion, was way too much.
Give or take another few months before this coin bubble blows and prices across the board on ancients and world should be around 1/3-1/2 of whatever they are now
<< <i>Everything was so over bid and pricey that its almost disgusting.
Give or take another few months before this coin bubble blows and prices across the board on ancients and world should be around 1/3-1/2 of whatever they are now >>
No offense. When I read that hopeful statement it made me chuckle. But I hope you're right.
<< <i>Everything was so over bid and pricey that its almost disgusting.
Give or take another few months before this coin bubble blows and prices across the board on ancients and world should be around 1/3-1/2 of whatever they are now >>
I really hope this happens, but I highly doubt it
But in all serious since I first started collecting world back in 2008 or so prices have tripled to quadrupled.
Every asset class that increases so much in such a short period of time is literally a ticking time bomb for a massive correction lol
Coin collectors just are usually the last ones to know
<< <i>I did manage to buy four of ten coins I was interested in. None from the Larry Adams collection but some which I'm quite glad to have acquired!
<< <i>Everything was so over bid and pricey that its almost disgusting.
Give or take another few months before this coin bubble blows and prices across the board on ancients and world should be around 1/3-1/2 of whatever they are now >>
I really hope this happens, but I highly doubt it
After all why doubt right? Auction after auction new highs are being set
Then the beautiful drop in this chart happened
http://www.pcgs.com/prices/graph.aspx?range=1970 to Date&filename=index
I find it perplexing that you believe ancient and world coins are immune from such market corrections and investor irrationality
But hey at least we both want me to be right. I can live with that
time to sell your "Darkside Collection" there are only two choices for
for ultra top prices, and that is you either sell with CNG or Fritz Kunker.
They get the results that the others (auction houses) dream of. In my
will I have stipulated that they are the ones, no one else!! I have bought
from these two in the past and paid dearly; I enjoy the ownership of my
treasures.
<< <i>I did manage to buy four of ten coins I was interested in. None from the Larry Adams collection but some which I'm quite glad to have acquired!
<< <i>Everything was so over bid and pricey that its almost disgusting.
Give or take another few months before this coin bubble blows and prices across the board on ancients and world should be around 1/3-1/2 of whatever they are now >>
I really hope this happens, but I highly doubt it
Same here.
I doubt prices will decrease until income distribution starts reversing its trend of inequality. That, sadly, doesn't appear to be on the horizon.
Edited to add: The reason I say this is that there is too much money out there looking for a place to go. Prices won't go down until that money finds another target.
<< <i>Over the last three decades I have come to realize that when it comes
time to sell your "Darkside Collection" there are only two choices for
for ultra top prices, and that is you either sell with CNG or Fritz Kunker.
They get the results that the others (auction houses) dream of. In my
will I have stipulated that they are the ones, no one else!! I have bought
from these two in the past and paid dearly; I enjoy the ownership of my
treasures. >>
I can understand Kuenker, the HA of Europe. But can someone explain CNG?
I mean they are a small, niche player without a fancy website or significant marketing presence. How do they do it?
<< <i>
<< <i>Over the last three decades I have come to realize that when it comes
time to sell your "Darkside Collection" there are only two choices for
for ultra top prices, and that is you either sell with CNG or Fritz Kunker.
They get the results that the others (auction houses) dream of. In my
will I have stipulated that they are the ones, no one else!! I have bought
from these two in the past and paid dearly; I enjoy the ownership of my
treasures. >>
I can understand Kuenker, the HA of Europe. But can someone explain CNG?
I mean they are a small, niche player without a fancy website or significant marketing presence. How do they do it? >>
I can't really explain CNG but can you explain Kunker,
From what I understand they have an awful reputation
They regularly sell fake coins, you can't tell anything about a coins condition; whether it has hairlines etc.. From their photos
When you bid on an auction you don't get outbid notifications
Oh and all that for a crazy 23% bp
that fred13 states. Kunker would not have the reputation they have
in the numismatic community if the accusation of selling fakes
were true.
One factor that CNG does better than any other auction house is their invoice handling. It's entirely automated: I won four coins yesterday, had an invoice in my inbox this morning, they processed my credit card (for no additional fee, despite it being a mid-five-figure bill), and I'll likely have a tracking number later tonight or tomorrow. Compared to other auction houses that take weeks to send invoices, are arduously slow with shipping, and just a pain to deal with, the ease of working with CNG is a very appealing attribute in my eyes.
However, at the moment, NAC is the king for ancients worldwide, with their sales consistently bringing incredibly strong prices and their strong prices attracting great consignments. It's a self-feeding cycle which keeps the best auction houses at the top.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
I won one lot from the auction. Like others have said, CNG is easy to deal with. They are not just a niche, they are a major auctioneer of ancient and world material. They have a simplistic web site that looks basic compared to others, but the site is perfectly easy to navigate and use, it is speedy, and I've never had any connection problems during the end of an auction. I really hope they don't try to update their site for the sake of having more bells and whistles (that often ends poorly). Their online archives are quite useful when doing research.
Nap - thread had derailed a bit but now back on track
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Kunker and CNG are fine people. Not sure why the slandering. You can not be in business that long and thrive if you weren't doing the right thing. My experiences have been very good.
Nap - thread had derailed a bit but now back on track
Slandering???
It was simply said that one person would only sell via those auction houses because they got the best prices. And I said I understand how Kuenker does it, but I didn't understand how CNG did it because they didn't have a "big boy" marketing budget nor a huge "presence."
That isn't slandering nor denigrating. I have the utmost respect for CNG, but just don't understand how they get the prices they do.
As for selling fakes, I think every house has done so in the past. I'm certain it was accidental and the buyer was made whole immediately. Fakes are getting so good that they can fool even the experts at times. There's a huge difference between properly acknowledging a mistake and purposely peddling fakes. I'm quite sure fred13 meant the former.
From what I understand they have an awful reputation
They regularly sell fake coins, you can't tell anything about a coins condition; whether it has hairlines etc.. From their photos
When you bid on an auction you don't get outbid notifications
Oh and all that for a crazy 23% bp"
That's slander.
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
I'm not slandering anyone. I'm simply providing my observations and experiences people that I know have had
Much like people here can not recommend a dealer I can voice my opinion
All one needs to do is Google Kunker fakes too see the numerous threads on various forums devoted to the subject
<< <i>
<< <i>Kunker and CNG are fine people. Not sure why the slandering. You can not be in business that long and thrive if you weren't doing the right thing. My experiences have been very good.
Nap - thread had derailed a bit but now back on track
Slandering???
It was simply said that one person would only sell via those auction houses because they got the best prices. And I said I understand how Kuenker does it, but I didn't understand how CNG did it because they didn't have a "big boy" marketing budget nor a huge "presence."
That isn't slandering nor denigrating. I have the utmost respect for CNG, but just don't understand how they get the prices they do.
As for selling fakes, I think every house has done so in the past. I'm certain it was accidental and the buyer was made whole immediately. Fakes are getting so good that they can fool even the experts at times. There's a huge difference between properly acknowledging a mistake and purposely peddling fakes. I'm quite sure fred13 meant the former. >>
To be quite honest I'm not sure if it's the former or the latter. If I had to guess it would be a mixture of both but that's my opinion
From your comments you hope the coin market crashes and auction houses go away as thy are greedy and take advantage of people. We have a choice whether to buy from them or buy at all. It's a choice.
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
I agree that CNG is a solid and respectable business. No arguments there.
Fair points; perhaps my comments did not read the correct way. In no way do I want auction houses to disappear. At this point just about every coin I buy comes from an auction house. I do understand they have to make a profit and I bear them no ill will because of it.
However as I explained Kunker is a different matter for the reasons I mentioned
Lastly of course I want the world coin market to crash. The price of what I collect is 500% what it used to be a few years ago. I just find it a bit frustrating that when I bring up rational reasons as to why I believe it may be the case going forward I get labeled a troll.
Lookup some of the threads I started a few weeks back regarding state of the world coin market - I sensed softening for quite some time yet there may be multiple reasons - dollar strength, weakened purchasing due to economy, oversupply of commonly found coins and perhaps a change in the collector base.
I do see strength at the higher end of the market which is owned by the auction house. I do not see much in dealer inventories anymore forcing many to solely source through these auctions where prices and fees are far greater. Unfortunately EBay has lost its luster. Used to be a good source for purchasing and selling. It has become a very different venue.
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
Many will agree - as prices have gone nuts and most of us do complain - if not in public, to each other, privately....its been a few years now, and its really gotten ridiculous.
SmEagle I keep clicking on your collection - it is an insane commendable effort that truthfully most here can not compete with, and its nice that you feel free to post and share it with this forum.
IDK Kunker well but believe they are the HA of Europe. They are really a big solid operation, and every large well known firm has its quirks or what not. I don't know how much truth is in the fakes - they may have been involved with some issues over the years but very highly doubt it is anything close to normal business ethics on there part.
CNG is an amazing firm indeed - my only pet peeve ever was their decision to sticker Lissner with wings - which I consider one of the dumbest things they've ever done.